Possibly ANOTHER War?

[daleduke17]

http://pantagraph.com/articles/2008/...c953443795.txt

Oh goody, just what the US needs to do. Get involved with another spat between two countries.

Looking at some of the discussion in the article, it doesn't explicitly say "US to enter war", but there is some wording that makes that look possible:

- President Bush called for an end to the Russian bombings and an immediate halt to the violence.

- “This is about annihilation of a democracy on their borders,” Saakashvili told the British Broadcasting Corp. “We on our own cannot fight with Russia. We want immediate cease-fire, immediate cessation of hostilities, separation of Russia and Georgia and international mediation.”

- Georgia, a U.S. ally whose troops have been trained by American soldiers, launched the major offensive overnight Friday.

- Russia also laid much of the responsibility for ending the fighting on Washington, which has trained Georgian troops. Washington, in turned, blamed Russia.

- “We have urged an immediate halt to the violence and a stand-down by all troops. We call for an end to the Russian bombings, and a return by the parties to the status quo,” Bush said in the statement.

Here we go again (if it does happen). The United States doesn't have the manpower (or money) to open another theatre of operations.

[Boozy]

The US is not going to declare war against Russia.

But the international community does need to take a stance on this, and I agree that Putin needs to be verbally bitch-slapped.

Oh, did I say "Putin"? I meant to say "Medvedev." Right.

[Greenday]

The US won't be going into Russia. We have other areas we are worrying about. And this is a situation the UN will actually get into, as the UN is a lot more respected in that area. The US does this for all areas of conflict, giving warnings out. No different from any other area of conflict that doesn't involve us.

[daleduke17]

The US won't be going into Russia. We have other areas we are worrying about. And this is a situation the UN will actually get into, as the UN is a lot more respected in that area. The US does this for all areas of conflict, giving warnings out. No different from any other area of conflict that doesn't involve us.

The not involving the US is what's catching my attention. Look at the fourth quote down about much of the responsibility being on Washington. That makes it look like, to me, that the US will somehow get involved (maybe not in a military fashion, though).

The United States has better things to do than dealing with what looks to be nothing more than a glorified civil war. Bush should have told Medvedev point blank that the responsibility of ending hostilities lies between Medvedev and his equal in Georgia. Also that the US won't get involved unless physically provoked (bombing of any US territory/base/etc).

[Boozy]

I don't understand what your concern is here, daleduke. Are you seriously against the US government even commenting on this issue?

We can't expect the US to cover their ears and yell "LA LA LA WE'RE NOT LISTENING!" Like it or not, all countries are members of an international community, and what happens in one part of the world affects everyone.

No one is expecting the US to commit peacekeepers in their overextended state, and let me assure you that American diplomats would be the last choice for mediation involving Russia. But it would be immensely childish and silly for the US to bury their heads in the sand in an effort to pretend they don't even notice.

[daleduke17]

My concern is the fact that the words "President Bush", "Washington" and "American" showed up a lot in the article. Russia says the United States is the only one who can end the hostility. Bush would probably find it a great idea to go over there. Because, remember, the United States can't leave a problem not involving them alone.

The United States shouldn't be commenting on the issue. They aren't involved. It would be like me commenting on a squabble between two people who live down the street from me. If it has nothing to do with me, I'm not going to get involved. I won't even comment on it other than to say "It's between them. Let them figure it out".

The United States has to deal with their own wars. They can leave one problem alone. There are plenty of other countries who can try to mediate this one.

[Greenday]

The problem is, if no one does anything, Georgia isn't the only small satellite nation I'm sure Russia wouldn't mind taking back...

[Amethyst Hunter]

This is disturbing to me, personally. I don't think - at least, I HOPE - our government isn't that fucking stupid to screw with Russia. Directly, anyway...

...however, this is EXACTLY the kind of insanity dominionists and their friendlies want to provoke, because they believe that Russia is all part of their "end times" insanity. And believe me, they aren't above pushing their numbers to meddle enough in some way to piss off enough people to spark what would literally be hell on earth. (Witness the way they've basically been waving a match at the powderkeg that is the Middle East.)

King George is more likely to try and mess with Iran, IMO. (Which would also be mass suicide, because not only does Iran control a strategic shipping port that is *extremely* vital to most of the industrialized world - including the US - but they're friends with...Russia AND China.)

[Boozy]

...however, this is EXACTLY the kind of insanity dominionists and their friendlies want to provoke, because they believe that Russia is all part of their "end times" insanity. And believe me, they aren't above pushing their numbers to meddle enough in some way to piss off enough people to spark what would literally be hell on earth. (Witness the way they've basically been waving a match at the powderkeg that is the Middle East.)

Are you saying that the Bush administration has deliberately been trying to start World War III? I think that's going a step too far.

They may be incompetent, greedy, selfish, and cruel, but I can't believe that they're trying to bring on the end of days. That's a conspiracy theory I can't swallow.

[protege]

They may be incompetent, greedy, selfish, and cruel, but I can't believe that they're trying to bring on the end of days. That's a conspiracy theory I can't swallow.

I can't buy that one either. How would starting WWIII be in our best interest? We're already overextended as it is with Iraq and Afghanistan, and still haven't caught bin Laden. Instead, we should make all the comments we want, but let the UN deal with it. As much as I don't like the UN, since they tend to delay doing anything (see Somalia, Rwanda, Yugoslavia), I really don't think it's in our best interest to meddle with their affairs.

[AFPheonix]

Russia wants the US involved because we're pretty involved with Georgia as it is.
It's going to take more than just us, though. The EU needs to get involved as well.

[protege]

With France and Germany in the EU, I don't see that happening. Nor is there any way we ("we" being the rest of the world) can really enforce sanctions. All it would take is a country like China (or even France and Germany themselves...who everyone knows sold crap to Iraq after the first Gulf War) to undermine them.

Even so, I do think this latest war is going to go badly from a PR standpoint. For example, Chechnya has been fighting their own war for independence. During both of the wars (sporadic fighting still going on), Russia made itself out to be a big bully. No wonder that their own military didn't want to fight their own people...

[Amethyst Hunter]

Are you saying that the Bush administration has deliberately been trying to start World War III? I think that's going a step too far.

They may be incompetent, greedy, selfish, and cruel, but I can't believe that they're trying to bring on the end of days. That's a conspiracy theory I can't swallow.

I *wish* I were joking.

I'm not.

Bush himself and his little ring of advisors may not necessarily *themselves* be trying to (although some of us have really, really serious doubts about that). But there ARE dominionist sympathizers (if not outright dominionists themselves) scattered throughout upper echelons, and they have some very frightening access to things they should not. There has, for instance, been a very disturbing rise in the aggressive stealth "evangelism" (and I use that word very lightly, because what these people are doing is anything *but* spreading peaceful words) of the US military: essentially, you get hassled to convert to dominionist views or they'll make your life hell - or worse, you risk winding up in a 'friendly-fire' situation.

Destroying the world is pretty much what dominionists live for - if they can't rule over it and make everyone's lives a misery, they want to see the whole thing go kablooey because in their eyes, "Jee-zuz will magically make everything all better by wiping away all sin and rapturing up us Twu Believers!" (Google rapture theory, it's pretty freaking scary) This is just one of many reasons why so many people were shocked and horrified when Bush snuck in for a second term; what he's done is bad enough, but his assministration is a very real and very dangerous threat. Think about it - he has total control over the military as commander-in-chief, and if you get a few dominionist hardcores in there who are running around with WMDs... Yeah. Not a pretty thought.

Not to mention the fact that he's made no secret of his wanting to go after Iraq since Day 1, and with the war drums rattling for Iran, it's clear these assholes would love nothing more than to wave a lit match at the powderkeg that is the Middle East.

Edit to add: This is also why dominionists wholeheartedly support the pillaging of the earth, mass overbreeding (the 'quiverfull' movement) and completely refuse any attempts at conservation and care of the environment. They WANT things to go to shit, because they believe it means their little rapture party will happen that much sooner.

[CancelMyService]

Also, keep in mind there's an oil pipeline to the Caspian Sea that runs through, wait for it.......Georgia. Not suprisingly, Russia went from just quelling the long running ethnic tensions to rolling troops across Georgia to presumably try to reoccupy the country and gain control of the pipeline.

It's shaping up to be the end game in the battle for control of oil. It was so maddening to hear them keep mentioning during the Olympics how China is bad for buddying up to Sudan, but no one ever mentions why the do, to get a slice of the oil in Africa. The US started the "start a land war to protect oil interest" strategy, so now it's going to come down to a showdown between US, Russia, and China for a real life game of Risk over who can control the most oil lines.

That's what makes it sickening that the only solution anyone can come up with is more domestic drilling, it's the most short sighted idea possible. Not only will it take long to produce any results, there will be exactly zero effect on gas prices or the world market in general since OPEC will just reduce production by whatever amount we drill domestically. Of course the oil companies don't care about gas prices, they just want to have even higher record profits, so their paid shills will be on all the news shows pushing how anyone who's against drilling is a God hating commie or whatever slur being used now against common-sense thinking folks.

[Boozy]

Good point, CMS.

And what does the US need a shit-load of oil for? That's right, kids: The Iraq war.

This isn't yet "another" problem; this is the same problem. Oil dependency.