How to Improve the School System

[Seifer]

Because the world is going to do this, right?

Get real!

They need to learn very early on the world doesn't give a crap what they think or like or are interested by; they need to apply themselves with studious discipline regardless.

Yeah, go tell a five year old to shut up and study. I'm sure that'll motivate them to pay attention in school.

[AdminAssistant]

If you want to improve the school system, improve the parents.

This. Every time I talk to K-12 teachers they tell me that dealing with parents is the worst part of their job. Students also need to be made more accountable for their own success (or failure). That's the real problem with some of these standards that schools and teachers are required to meet - nobody wants to fail a student anymore. Better for a student to fail pre-algebra than to be passed through it and never learn.

I think there's also an inherent flaw in the training of teachers. Instead of having K-12 teachers get education degrees, they should have degrees in whatever subject they're teaching. (Exception: Lower elementary school, usually Kindergarten to third grade, when one teacher is responsible for the entire class.)

[crashhelmet]

I think there's also an inherent flaw in the training of teachers. Instead of having K-12 teachers get education degrees, they should have degrees in whatever subject they're teaching. (Exception: Lower elementary school, usually Kindergarten to third grade, when one teacher is responsible for the entire class.)

It comes down to the state requirements and the need for teachers. Most people with education degrees teach in Elementary school. Their degrees give them the training to teach general education and get students through certain levels.

Teachers with education degrees can get a job in a Junior/Middle School or High School where all they teach is one particular class, but they have to beat out the person with a degree in that subject.

I originally went to school to be a music teacher. The school I went to actually offered a Bachelor's in Music Education. It wasn't a Bachelor of Arts in Music. It was a degree specifically designed to teach people how to teach music students every major instrument. I had to learn to play all of the brass, woodwinds, percussion, and string instruments. I also had to take ear training and sight singing classes.

If I had gotten the BA, instead of the BME, I would've concentrated on one instrument and had a better shot at playing in an orchestra somewhere rather than teaching a class. It would be like getting a degree in Math and then trying to teach a 2nd grade class everything they need to know about vocabulary, social studies, science, and geography.

But if the teachers aren't there, you hire who you can get. It's how you end up with the Algebra I teacher with a degree in Theology or English Lit.

[SongsOfDragons]

I originally went to school to be a music teacher. The school I went to actually offered a Bachelor's in Music Education. It wasn't a Bachelor of Arts in Music. It was a degree specifically designed to teach people how to teach music students every major instrument. I had to learn to play all of the brass, woodwinds, percussion, and string instruments. I also had to take ear training and sight singing classes.

O/T...8D

That sounds AWESOME.

Does that mean you've played a bassoon? I love bassoons.

[crashhelmet]

O/T...8D

That sounds AWESOME.

Does that mean you've played a bassoon? I love bassoons.

The Farting Bedpost? Yes. I even had to learn to make my own reeds for it. It, and the Oboe, were the hardest instruments for me to learn. Couldn't get my embouchure right to play without feeling like my head would explode.

[mikoyan29]

I think there's also an inherent flaw in the training of teachers. Instead of having K-12 teachers get education degrees, they should have degrees in whatever subject they're teaching. (Exception: Lower elementary school, usually Kindergarten to third grade, when one teacher is responsible for the entire class.)

That depends on the state you're in. I forget when it started here but you have to have a Major or minor in your subject area and you get tested to it.

[Seifer]

The Farting Bedpost? Yes. I even had to learn to make my own reeds for it. It, and the Oboe, were the hardest instruments for me to learn. Couldn't get my embouchure right to play without feeling like my head would explode.

Wind instruments and I just don't get along. I tried playing the clarinet and almost blacked out.

[AdminAssistant]

That depends on the state you're in. I forget when it started here but you have to have a Major or minor in your subject area and you get tested to it.

Here you have to take a certain number of credit hours, I think, but it just isn't enough. A friend got her Master's in Education (switched from the History Dept.), and she took classes with people who were going to be history teachers who didn't know diddly about history.

[fireheart17]

The system for requiring teachers to actually BE teachers is a little different down here in good old Ausland. Here's the general consensus:

Early Childhood graduates can "teach" in childcare centres, kindergartens and up to Year 2 at school.
Primary graduates can teach children from Reception (Kindergarten/Prepatory/Foundation Years) through until Year 7 (might be a little less in some states).

Both of these teachers need to be versed in ALL aspects of the curriculum, regardless of whether they are teaching them or not. (this includes the specialist subjects such as PE and Performing/Visual Arts)

Middle School Teachers can teach from Year 7-10 and are required to be able to teach in at LEAST one subject area minimum, although two is preferred.

Secondary school teachers can teach from Years 8-12 and are required to be able to teach in two subject areas.

Special Education Middle/Secondary Teachers only need to be capable of teaching in one area, plus Special Needs.

As for the specialisations, generally all the undergraduate (Bachelor) teaching degrees require you to do a teaching degree and a degree in the Arts, Science or Health Sciences. The Arts covers everything down here from History to English. Your major in that degree is what you can teach up until Year 12 level, while your minor (if you have one) you can teach up to Year 10 level. If you've done 1 year of a subject, you can teach it up to Year 7 level.

Special Needs teachers do their education degree alongside Disability Studies.

ETA: Alternately, you can do what I do and complete your undergrad in whatever field you so choose, then do your postgraduate in teaching.

[fireheart17]

OK, a few things that I'd note here which might be useful to improve (or not improve) the school system (note: unless otherwise stated, all of them apply to primary level):

1. Get rid of the chaplain program. seriously. "Christian Pastoral Support Worker?" It's a PUBLIC SCHOOL. Keep religion out of it, unless it is being taught in an educational context (for instance, the formation of religions or facts about ALL religions taught as part of cultural studies i.e. why some Indian people don't cut their hair). If the kids need a counsellor so damn badly, provide a counsellor. (both primary and secondary)

2. Place programs such as Arts, Second Language (French, Japanese, whatever) and Phys Ed with specialist teachers. Now I know this might be the case overseas, but down here, it's not always the case. 1 x 45-minute lesson per week is not enough. (Second Language is always taken as a specialist subject) Leave the core subjects to the classroom teachers.

3. Set up a decent bullying policy and actually enforce it. Fuck zero tolerance. While you may not be able to expel a kid, at least punish them and repeat that punishment. (in the public system, by law, you are required to be in school if you're a certain age, so expelling someone does not work. Expulsion is ok in private schools provided the student goes back into the public system)

4. Set rules about when kids are able to use technology in the classroom. Yes, while calculators and computers are becoming more commonplace and affordable, make sure that the kids can do it without needing a calculator first and that their handwriting is decent. Don't over-rely on technology.

5. Provide more COLA. And no, I don't mean the soft drink, I mean Covered Outdoor Learning Areas. So if kids want to play a game of basketball outside and they've forgotten their hat, they can still play. Same goes for if the kid forgets his/her hat for a class PE activity: don't just make them write lines, make them do something like carry all the equipment or similar. They still get involved, but at the same time, they're also not being allowed to play.

[crashhelmet]

3. Set up a decent bullying policy and actually enforce it. Fuck zero tolerance. While you may not be able to expel a kid, at least punish them and repeat that punishment. (in the public system, by law, you are required to be in school if you're a certain age, so expelling someone does not work. Expulsion is ok in private schools provided the student goes back into the public system)

I'm not sure how it works where you're at, but here in the US, expelled kids aren't expelled from all schools. They're expelled from the "normal" school system and sent to a remedial or "continuation" school. It usually takes a crime committed to get expelled from there, at which point they end up in Juvenile Hall (county jail for minors) and attend classes there.

These schools also take in those that would normally drop out of school and allows them to still complete school and graduate.

[fireheart17]

I'm not sure how it works where you're at, but here in the US, expelled kids aren't expelled from all schools. They're expelled from the "normal" school system and sent to a remedial or "continuation" school. It usually takes a crime committed to get expelled from there, at which point they end up in Juvenile Hall (county jail for minors) and attend classes there.

These schools also take in those that would normally drop out of school and allows them to still complete school and graduate.

It depends. they don't "expel" them from the school permanently, but they're "excluded" for up to a term. During that time, they have three options:

1. Attend a "behavioural" program, which seeks to address the behaviours that put them there in the first place, but also still having an education. They then return back to the school they were "excluded from."

2. Attend an "alternate" school, which runs on a similar premise to the behavioural program, but is open to anyone who is running the risk of dropping out, bad behaviour or not. They can do this short-term or long term.

3. Enrol at another school.

All of these options are still within the public school system.

Generally serious or repeated behaviour will get someone excluded, but unlike a zero-tolerance policy, where a tiny bit of marijuana will result in expulsion, things like drugs are assessed on a case-by-case basis. One kid I know of at my placement school bought in a container of marijuana from the local skate park, with the intention of smoking it. (the kid was around 12/13) A couple of his concerned classmates (for him) tipped off the teacher with the result being that the kid was suspended for 3 days and required to attend drug counselling. Oh and his parents were called.

[DGoddess]

Take for instance a kid who doodles a lot. Perhaps instead of yelling at the kid and giving them detention for not paying attention, give them more art classes. Odds are, the kid likes to draw and God knows how good they could become if they got a lot more instruction.

Or some kid constantly beating on his desk to a tune in his head? Get him more music lessons. Maybe he's the next Travis Barker or Dave Grohl.

That's an interesting idea . . . instead of punishing the child, that should clearly be a sign that the child has something that interests him/her. In which case, it should be cultivated, not scrutinized.

In my case, it wasn't doodling I'd rather do when I had my work done, it was writing on a story. And my teachers knew this. What did they do?

Let's just say I had one busy senior year. Not only was I editor in chief of the school newsletter (which ended up becoming an annual) but I also took a class project (which was to take a scene out of a book and modernize it) and not only did I have a small ensemble group performing it for the school, but was also invited to have the same skit performed at a school function we had where the State Superintendant for Public Instruction came to speak at.