Racist Scholarship

[Seifer]

The whole of society gives you special treatment. You want more?

Not really. Now, if Greenday was a white heterosexual male in the upper middle or upper classes, then yes, you could say he gets special treatment from the whole of society. However, if Greenday is a white heterosexual male in the lower class or lower-middle class, then no, he doesn't get any special treatment. Are there any scholarships for white heterosexual males in the lower-middle or lower classes? If not, there should be.

[Greenday]

The whole of society gives you special treatment. You want more?

Let me think about it for a sec: I got to go to a public school like everyone else. I didn't get nice things like pretty much everyone else. When I went to college, I got in based on my grades. I never got any scholarships. I never got financial aid. My first two jobs? They hired mostly minorities so I was one of the few whites hired. My other two jobs? Phone interviews so the people interviewing me didn't know what race I am.

So remind me again of all that special treatment society gives me? Cause it sure seems like society doesn't give a shit about whether I'm here or not.

[daleduke17]

The whole of society gives you special treatment. You want more?

And how does the whole of society give special treatment?

Answer me that.

[Andara Bledin]

However, if Greenday is a white heterosexual male in the lower class or lower-middle class, then no, he doesn't get any special treatment.

That's either incredibly naive, or complete bullshit.

In general, those in the US who more often and more consistently are given advantages they didn't legitimately earn are male, white, heterosexual, have money, and are from respectable families.

He may not get as many perks as if he had money or had a name, but he does get perks.

Hell, I'm poor and female, and I still get perks for being white. Not as many as if I were a minority male, but they're still there.

^-.-^

[Greenday]

He may not get as many perks as if he had money or had a name, but he does get perks.

Clearly you guys know more about my life than I do. Educate those of us who don't know my life how I have been so privileged being a white male.

[Andara Bledin]

You don't get pulled over by cops as often; although I get pulled over even less often because I'm a woman - hell, I get away with shit that I should be ticketed for because I'm a woman, so that's one place where you are at a disadvantage.

There's a reason that there are phrases in common usage such as "driving while black." I have friends that have been profiled purely due to their skin color. My brother has been pulled over because his friend is black. It happens all the time.

And even if you're white, if you're not clean-cut you get discriminated against. My ex was pulled over once because he looks scruffy and the cop thought he didn't look like the kind of person who could afford to be driving a late-model convertible, but the moment he saw the address on the license, he spouted some bullshit about car thefts and was done with it. The whole thing felt more than a little weird, to be honest.

^-.-^

[Seifer]

That's either incredibly naive, or complete bullshit.

In general, those in the US who more often and more consistently are given advantages they didn't legitimately earn are male, white, heterosexual, have money, and are from respectable families.

And people from the lower or lower-middle classes don't normally fall into those categories. Please explain to me how young men who grew up in a trailer park are respected and given perks. In my experience, they're labeled white trash racists and are laughed at by society in general.

And even if you're white, if you're not clean-cut you get discriminated against. My ex was pulled over once because he looks scruffy and the cop thought he didn't look like the kind of person who could afford to be driving a late-model convertible, but the moment he saw the address on the license, he spouted some bullshit about car thefts and was done with it. The whole thing felt more than a little weird, to be honest.

Oh, so you admit that simply being white doesn't get you perks. You have to "look the part." (Which is why young men from low-economic areas aren't as respected as men who have money.) So why do you think I'm naive when I say that WHM from low-economic areas aren't receiving perks simply for being white?

All I'm saying is that I have no problems with minority-only scholarships since they give minority students opportunities to earn more money for school. (i.e Minority students have the chance to earn money from generic scholarships that are open to everyone, but can also earn money from minority-only scholarships.) Why, then, is it such a problem to give white heterosexual males from low-income households more scholarship opportunities, too? Why is it okay to keep one group from extra money, but not the other? Both parties are in need of assistance because both parties come from low-economic backgrounds.

[KnitShoni]

You don't get pulled over by cops as often; although I get pulled over even less often because I'm a woman - hell, I get away with shit that I should be ticketed for because I'm a woman, so that's one place where you are at a disadvantage.

There's a reason that there are phrases in common usage such as "driving while black." I have friends that have been profiled purely due to their skin color. My brother has been pulled over because his friend is black. It happens all the time.

And even if you're white, if you're not clean-cut you get discriminated against. My ex was pulled over once because he looks scruffy and the cop thought he didn't look like the kind of person who could afford to be driving a late-model convertible, but the moment he saw the address on the license, he spouted some bullshit about car thefts and was done with it. The whole thing felt more than a little weird, to be honest.

^-.-^

And the only reason he got the BS and not arrested was because he was white.

Greenday, if you're caught with drugs (assuming they even check), you'll most likely be let go. Me, I'll go to jail. No one is afraid for you to go outside because the police might kill you for walking down the street. If you get ahead, it's because of your merits and abilities. If I do, it's because of some handout somebody thinks I got. If you don't achieve, it's because a minority "got special treatment." If I don't, it's because my race is lazy/stupid/what have you. You have to actually do something before someone will wonder whether you belong somewhere. I just have to breathe. I wish all I had to worry about was this fantasy where everybody has it better than me in a society built around people like me since it began.

Edit: Also, your complaining will be taken seriously more often than not. Mine will be chalked up to "playing the race card" or "just needing something to bitch about."

[Seifer]

And the only reason he got the BS and not arrested was because he was white.

Greenday, if you're caught with drugs (assuming they even check), you'll most likely be let go. Me, I'll go to jail.

You're forgetting that cops that go by stereotypes are also going to go after whoever they consider "gang banger" teenage boys. This can include both black and white teenagers - as long as they "look the part" (baggy clothing, jewelry, tattoos, attitude, etc.) the police will probably look deeper into the situation.

No one is afraid for you to go outside because the police might kill you for walking down the street. If you get ahead, it's because of your merits and abilities. If I do, it's because of some handout somebody thinks I got. If you don't achieve, it's because a minority "got special treatment." If I don't, it's because my race is lazy/stupid/what have you. You have to actually do something before someone will wonder whether you belong somewhere. I just have to breathe.

Where the fuck do you live? I am aware that there are still places where people have that 1950's mindset that blacks aren't to be trusted, but I would hope that more urban areas have gotten better about that kind of stupidity. I live in a relatively large town (nothing like NY, but far from rural), and I would say that we have a pretty decent mix of people here. I went to college with a couple black students (women, but that's pretty standard in teaching courses. Why are men afraid to teach? D: ), and they were both incredibly smart and driven. They were well respected by the other students, and are still good friends of mine.

I honestly don't think it crossed anyone's mind that they were there "because it was handed to them."

(I know this has been said quite a bit in these kinds of debates, but the fact that the country could elect Obama should be a clue that we're moving in the right direction. I don't care how "Oreo" people claim him to be - the fact that he's not parchment white would have been a deal-killer in the past.)

[KnitShoni]

You're forgetting that cops that go by stereotypes are also going to go after whoever they consider "gang banger" teenage boys. This can include both black and white teenagers - as long as they "look the part" (baggy clothing, jewelry, tattoos, attitude, etc.) the police will probably look deeper into the situation.



Where the fuck do you live? I am aware that there are still places where people have that 1950's mindset that blacks aren't to be trusted, but I would hope that more urban areas have gotten better about that kind of stupidity. I live in a relatively large town (nothing like NY, but far from rural), and I would say that we have a pretty decent mix of people here. I went to college with a couple black students (women, but that's pretty standard in teaching courses. Why are men afraid to teach? D: ), and they were both incredibly smart and driven. They were well respected by the other students, and are still good friends of mine.

I honestly don't think it crossed anyone's mind that they were there "because it was handed to them."

(I know this has been said quite a bit in these kinds of debates, but the fact that the country could elect Obama should be a clue that we're moving in the right direction. I don't care how "Oreo" people claim him to be - the fact that he's not parchment white would have been a deal-killer in the past.)

I'm not forgetting anything. I know it "can" include white teenagers. I also know it generally doesn't.

As for where the fuck I live: I live in Houston, TX. I have family in several large cities across the country. The mindset you're thinking of is not so 1950s as you would like to believe, but then, it isn't directed at you, so you wouldn't notice it.

Just because you don't think it crossed anyone's mind that your classmates were there because of some handout does nothing to change that that may very well have been their reality. It certainly was mine, as well as most other black people who have gone to college (or otherwise succeeded) that I know.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...nkey-President

I'm always amused at the argument about Obama's election when things like this happen all over the country daily.

[Nekojin]

Oh, so you admit that simply being white doesn't get you perks. You have to "look the part." (Which is why young men from low-economic areas aren't as respected as men who have money.) So why do you think I'm naive when I say that WHM from low-economic areas aren't receiving perks simply for being white?

You're missing the point. All a lower-class white guy has to do to be accepted by the majority of society is take a thorough shower, shave (or at least neatly trim beard and hair), and wear a suit (or even just slacks and a collared shirt). For a few hundred dollars (at most!) and a few hours' time, any white man can walk anywhere without being noticed, unless he acts out of place. The "trailer trash" types you speak of are deliberately (or sometimes subconsciously) rejecting societal mores. They don't want to fit in, so they explicitly stand out.

Meanwhile, most minorities have to do a hell of a lot more to get that sort of tacit acceptance. They have to prove themselves up front, and keep proving themselves constantly. And for a significant chunk of America, they're still viewed with distrust, suspicion, and worse, even when they're on their best behavior.

[KnitShoni]

You're missing the point. All a lower-class white guy has to do to be accepted by the majority of society is take a thorough shower, shave (or at least neatly trim beard and hair), and wear a suit (or even just slacks and a collared shirt). For a few hundred dollars (at most!) and a few hours' time, any white man can walk anywhere without being noticed, unless he acts out of place. The "trailer trash" types you speak of are deliberately (or sometimes subconsciously) rejecting societal mores. They don't want to fit in, so they explicitly stand out.

Meanwhile, most minorities have to do a hell of a lot more to get that sort of tacit acceptance. They have to prove themselves up front, and keep proving themselves constantly. And for a significant chunk of America, they're still viewed with distrust, suspicion, and worse, even when they're on their best behavior.

And once we gain that acceptance, we're seen as "not really <insert race here>" by white people, and "trying to be white" by non-white people. The instant we remind white people we actually are <insert race here>, that acceptance is gone. We go back to being just another <whichever racial slur applies>.

[Seifer]

I'm not forgetting anything. I know it "can" include white teenagers. I also know it generally doesn't.

Please show me the figures you're working from that tell you it "generally doesn't." Oh that's right, you don't have any since you're speaking from personal experience.

Please don't assume that your reality is the same for everyone else - that's stereotyping in and of itself.

Every area of the country will have their own little group that they shit on constantly. For example, I bet southern California is more interested in stereotyping illegal aliens than black citizens.

As for where the fuck I live: I live in Houston, TX. I have family in several large cities across the country. The mindset you're thinking of is not so 1950s as you would like to believe, but then, it isn't directed at you, so you wouldn't notice it.

Thanks for assuming I've never been stereotyped or mistreated because of my age, gender, or race. Hell, I've been informed not to tell anyone about my religious beliefs (or lack there-of) because I'll probably get a bunch of flack for it, especially because of where I'm located.

Just because I'm not black doesn't mean I haven't faced some type of discrimination. Are you saying that yours is somehow worse than mine?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...nkey-President

I'm always amused at the argument about Obama's election when things like this happen all over the country daily.

You show me this as if I should somehow be shocked that there are old racist douchebags who think lowly of black citizens. Guess what, I'm not. I'll be happy when the older generation dies off and we'll be left with much fewer racist idiots than we've had in the last few decades. (I realize that racism will probably never die out since it's a form of elitism, but I am confident it will continue to diminish as younger generations are taught acceptance and the importance of diversity.)

[Seifer]

You're missing the point. All a lower-class white guy has to do to be accepted by the majority of society is take a thorough shower, shave (or at least neatly trim beard and hair), and wear a suit (or even just slacks and a collared shirt).

...They also have to change their way of speaking, study and become more knowledgeable about whatever they're talking about, and carry themselves differently.

Shaving, showering, and dolling themselves up is a plus, but if they still act and sound like morons, society is only going to laugh harder. "Oh look, a simpleton who thinks he's one of us!" Seriously, it's not as easy as you think.

Also, AGAIN, it depends completely on where you are. In some places (places where people aren't thoroughbred racists and are actually educated), a well-dressed minority can walk down the street without incident.

And once we gain that acceptance, we're seen as "not really <insert race here>" by white people, and "trying to be white" by non-white people. The instant we remind white people we actually are <insert race here>, that acceptance is gone. We go back to being just another <whichever racial slur applies>.

WOW, talk about paranoia. Sounds like you distrust and dislike any and all white citizens you meet and immediately make these wide-sweeping generalizations about them. Guess what? Not all of your white coworkers are going to think you're "not really <insert race here>" or "trying to be white" just because you're a good worker. Probably most of them are simply going to consider you a good worker. Period. End of story.

Move away from Racists-R-Us Texas and find a community that doesn't have their heads up their asses and you might gain a bit of trust in white Americans.

[KnitShoni]

Just because I'm not black doesn't mean I haven't faced some type of discrimination. Are you saying that yours is somehow worse than mine?



You show me this as if I should somehow be shocked that there are old racist douchebags who think lowly of black citizens. Guess what, I'm not. I'll be happy when the older generation dies off and we'll be left with much fewer racist idiots than we've had in the last few decades. (I realize that racism will probably never die out since it's a form of elitism, but I am confident it will continue to diminish as younger generations are taught acceptance and the importance of diversity.)

Considering discrimination against you is less likely to get you jailed or killed than discrimination against me, I'm going to have to say, yes. It is worse. Most of the time, all you'll get is hurt feelings. I think my potential loss of life is a worse result than your potential hurt feelings.

Keep pretending it's only a handful of old people who are racist. We've been waiting for "old racist people to die out" for decades. People seem to forget those old racist people weren't always old.

Do you not watch the news or read? The figures I'm "working with" are all over the place.

http://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-ref...t-quarter-2011

Start there.

Your "mistreatment" is not institutional. I never said you aren't discriminated against. But I'm not going to pretend the discrimination you face is on par with what any non-white person faces. That would be a lie.