Racist Scholarship

[Andara Bledin]

I hate generalizations. I hate it when an entire group is lumped together and assumed to live parallel lives.

Not all minorities are going to be passed over for jobs, just as not all white citizens are going to be chosen over a more qualified minority.

Actually, considering how endemic this is in the US (as mentioned, most people who do this don't even know they're doing and would be offended if you suggested they were), it's likely very rare for anyone to not be effected, particularly when the most influential perpetrators are within our school system; the typical student sees 50 teachers or more before they graduate; it would be a massive statistical anomaly for none of those teachers to have and therefore teach this sort of bias, to say nothing of how blatantly prevalent it is in pop culture.

Anecdote time: My ex's father was a substitute teacher in the LA unified district and a raging bigot. There's not one student he presided over that didn't get taught by example that it was ok to favor the white kids so long as it wasn't obvious you were doing so.

^-.-^

[Andara Bledin]

I'll save you the trouble. You can't.

I can't prove that texting while driving will get you killed, either, but that doesn't make it any less ignorant for you to think that you're somehow different. (I go with this example because you're reminding me quite heavily of an otherwise intelligent poster from another forum who honestly believed that since he'd never been in an accident that it meant that it was perfectly safe for him to text and drive at the same time)

The only ones I can say happen for certain are "Today I don’t have to think about men who don’t believe no means no." and "Today I don’t have to think about eyes going to my chest first." I've never seen evidence of the other stuff happening in my life to the people around me.

You do recall that data is not the plural of anecdote?

I'm willing to bet that if you opened your mind and your eyes and started really talking to some of the people around you, you'd be awfully surprised at just how much of that does happen around you that people don't bring up in your presence because of the shuttered and obstinate front you put up.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

Oh, sure. It must all be a problem of perception, not actual, systemic bias. It's not as though we have decades of data and research on racial disparity in sentencing, or hiring, or pay. It must simply be that we're imagining these things.

Give me statistics, not spin.

How many of these harsher sentences are in racially driven communities? how many of them are multiple offenders vs 1st time offenders?

How does this justify the hypocrisy in discriminating against white males?

[Seifer]

Actually, considering how endemic this is in the US (as mentioned, most people who do this don't even know they're doing and would be offended if you suggested they were), it's likely very rare for anyone to not be effected, particularly when the most influential perpetrators are within our school system; the typical student sees 50 teachers or more before they graduate; it would be a massive statistical anomaly for none of those teachers to have and therefore teach this sort of bias, to say nothing of how blatantly prevalent it is in pop culture.

How do you know it's endemic when there isn't any country-wide data? That's all I'm trying to say - you can't say something is endemic and people are racist without even realizing it when you don't have any provable evidence to back it up. It's safe to assume that it does happen, but when you move into territories such as "it's rare when it doesn't happen", you need to start offering some proof.

I'd put down good money and bet that racism is slowly decreasing in certain areas of the country. (Not over all of the country, because I know there are places where people are just not being educated about other cultures, races, etc.) However, it's visibly better than it has been in the past. Is it completely better? No. Will racism ever completely disappear? I doubt it - but I do believe it will get better with more time.

Anecdote time: My ex's father was a substitute teacher in the LA unified district and a raging bigot. There's not one student he presided over that didn't get taught by example that it was ok to favor the white kids so long as it wasn't obvious you were doing so.

And he should have been fired.

If we're going to generalize based on personal experience, then I could say that bigotry doesn't exist in the classroom because my teaching courses and my school years were very pro-diversity and pro-multiculturalism. However, since I can think beyond my own bubble, I can recognize that personal experience does not equal the country's reality.

[Zod]

I got into college because I worked hard and got good grades. Being a white male had nothing to do with it. And while I doubt my college grades were what got me my job afterwards, even if it was, that meant it was my education that got me my job, not me being a white male.

Several different conversations are going on in this thread. I was not saying that your life rocks because you're white, I was saying that you didn't get a scholarship because you weren't in the target audience ( meaning "not poor enough" - not "too pale" ).

Because I could so easily afford college. Wait, no, I had to take out loans and go thousands upon thousands of dollars of debt just to go to school. So I couldn't afford it but I went anyway.

That's how every single teenager who doesn't have rich parents does it.

[Nekojin]

Give me statistics, not spin.

How many of these harsher sentences are in racially driven communities? how many of them are multiple offenders vs 1st time offenders?

*FACEPALM*

The statistics are right there in the links I posted. FFS, it's not as though this is some secret.

How does this justify the hypocrisy in discriminating against white males?

This is a False Dichotomy fallacy. "They do it too!" doesn't make it right.

[crashhelmet]

*FACEPALM*

The statistics are right there in the links I posted. FFS, it's not as though this is some secret.

No, they're not. There are generalized statements, but nothing that says how much, how often, or in what areas.

This is a False Dichotomy fallacy. "They do it too!" doesn't make it right.

But you are defending the "But they do it too" side. You're justifying the discrimination against white males because "they do it too"

[Andara Bledin]

No, they're not. There are generalized statements, but nothing that says how much, how often, or in what areas.

Wait. So, because you didn't see numbers (did you even read any of it?), you're just going to dismiss it outright?

This is seriously starting to sound like arguing to "win" as opposed to actually caring whether or not you're correct. >_<

Again, I ask, was any actual reading performed?

.. 43.2% indicated harsher sentences for blacks, and over a quarter (27.6%) of the estimates on the direct impact of ethnicity registered harsher sentences for Latinos.

... white men aged 18-29 were 38 percent less likely to be sentenced to prison than black men of the same age group.

... whites who provided substantial assistance received an average 23% reduction in the likelihood of incarceration, while comparably situated Latinos received a 14% reduction and blacks received a 13% reduction.

The fun of this last one is that the circumstances leading into it are supposed to prevent this type of discrimination, but it's being abused to do exactly the opposite. >_<

... blacks charged with drug offenses were 3.6 times more likely than similarly situated whites to be sentenced as habitual offenders.

... blacks in Kansas City received sentences that were 14.09 months longer for drug offense convictions and 6.57 months longer for property crime convictions than sentences given to similarly situated whites...

... there was a 25 percentage point difference in the probability that a black person would be incarcerated for drug trafficking compared to a white person, a 19 percentage point difference for drug distribution, and a 12 percentage point difference for drug use.

... white victim cases nationwide have constituted between 51% and 56% of all murder and non-negligent homicide cases, while between 1976 and 2002, 81% of executed defendants had white victims.

The unemployment rate for black male college graduates 25 and older in 2009 has been nearly twice that of white male college graduates — 8.4 percent compared with 4.4 percent.

I see a sea of numbers, here, with lots of context in the documents in question.

^-.-^

[Nekojin]

No, they're not. There are generalized statements, but nothing that says how much, how often, or in what areas.

Andara's already proven that one false. You didn't even read the links, much less the data sources for the links.

But you are defending the "But they do it too" side. You're justifying the discrimination against white males because "they do it too"

Show me where I've said that. Quote me. I want to see the world through your eyes, if that's what you think I'm saying.

I've said from the beginning that scholarships that are given by private entities can choose whatever criteria they wish in order to offer their scholarships. That's a far, far cry from saying that racism in any form is okay. There is a distinct difference between racist and racial, and I'm not entirely sure you comprehend the distinction, at this point.

[crashhelmet]

Wait. So, because you didn't see numbers (did you even read any of it?), you're just going to dismiss it outright?

This is seriously starting to sound like arguing to "win" as opposed to actually caring whether or not you're correct. >_<

Again, I ask, was any actual reading performed?



The fun of this last one is that the circumstances leading into it are supposed to prevent this type of discrimination, but it's being abused to do exactly the opposite. >_<






I see a sea of numbers, here, with lots of context in the documents in question.

^-.-^

Which links did you pull these from. Not a single one of these comes up in the last three links that Nekojin posted here

Oh, sure. It must all be a problem of perception, not actual, systemic bias. It's not as though we have decades of data and research on racial disparity in sentencing, or hiring, or pay. It must simply be that we're imagining these things.

I'll admit to being wrong again and I'll leave this post as originally stated. I missed the link to the pdf file.

[crashhelmet]

Show me where I've said that. Quote me. I want to see the world through your eyes, if that's what you think I'm saying.

I've said from the beginning that scholarships that are given by private entities can choose whatever criteria they wish in order to offer their scholarships. That's a far, far cry from saying that racism in any form is okay. There is a distinct difference between racist and racial, and I'm not entirely sure you comprehend the distinction, at this point.

You're right. You never said it outright. But yet you contest calling the discrimination of white males hypocritical.

[Andara Bledin]

Which links did you pull these from. Not a single one of these comes up in the last three links that Nekojin posted here

Ok, let's break it down.

That first link leads to a synopsis of the study. The study is the pdf link right on the top left of the synopsis because, hey, synopses don't give the numbers.

^-.-^

[Greenday]

I'm willing to bet that if you opened your mind and your eyes and started really talking to some of the people around you, you'd be awfully surprised at just how much of that does happen around you that people don't bring up in your presence because of the shuttered and obstinate front you put up.

^-.-^

Beat you to it. I talked to five people who were not white males and asked them if they thought I was privileged for being a white male. They said that discrimination tends to go against me because everyone else gets special treatment from the system.

[Greenday]

A ton of stats about criminals

Not a criminal. Next.

[Duelist925]

Beat you to it. I talked to five people who were not white males and asked them if they thought I was privileged for being a white male. They said that discrimination tends to go against me because everyone else gets special treatment from the system.

...yes, because those five people invalidate the evidence already presented.

Not a criminal. Next.

Good for you. Now lets do a little something called "extrapolation" wherein we take one set of date, say, data that shows that minorities are treated unfairly by one system, and then think "Hey, I wonder if this is indicative of a bias that might pervade OTHER large systems?"