Racist Scholarship

[Andara Bledin]

Not a criminal.

Guess what: Neither are at least 1% of the people affected by those statistics.

Neither are any of the minority victims whose crimes never get any attention because there's a white victim to focus on.

To just dismiss the data because you're "not a criminal" is yet more evidence of close-minded narcissism - you didn't witness it happen to you so it must not have happened.

^-.-^

[AdminAssistant]

Adminassident : I always thought scholarships were set up by wealthy philanthropists or organisations looking to buy cheap labour ( "We'll pay for your education, you work for us after graduating" sort of thing )

There are some like that. The US government offers a number of scholarships/fellowships/grants through various agencies that are like that. A friend of mine has spent the past year in Ukraine doing research for her dissertation on a grant from the State Dep't on the condition that she get a job with a federal agency upon graduation. There's also a program called FLAS that funds graduate students as long as they are learning certain languages: Russian, Arabic, Chinese, Farsi, Turkish, etc. The idea is to get a larger percentage of academics fluent in languages that are important to federal agencies. Fulbrights work on a similar principle; while you are in another country as a Fulbright scholar, you serve as a kind of academic ambassador and have certain duties and responsibilities. Obviously these are more oriented towards graduate students, although Fulbrights are available to undergrads.

Stepping away from the government, though, there are basically two types of scholarships available to undergraduates: those offered through the University and those offered through private organizations. The first type can be broken into two categories: those offered directly from the university from a mass scholarship fund and those sponsored by individuals. I went to undergrad on a scholarship offered straight from the university to every student who earned more than a 30 on the ACT. Wasn't the most prestigious school in the world and I had to maintain a 3.5 GPA while taking honors classes, but it paid tuition, room/board, fees, and a stipend. When an individual sponsors a scholarship through a university, they can set whatever mandates they want, including year and area of study. I have seen some offered through the Women's Resource Center that are gender-specific, and I'm sure there are some that are race-specific.

Private organizations can do what they like. There are many groups that are trying desperately to get more young black and Hispanic kids into college. Scholarships are a part of that. On average, lack of access to schooling isn't a problem for most white males. It is for blacks, Hispanics, and First Nations.

[Greenday]

To just dismiss the data because you're "not a criminal" is yet more evidence of close-minded narcissism - you didn't witness it happen to you so it must not have happened.

I dismiss it because it isn't proof that I have lived in privilege life. Statistics mean nothing if they aren't relevant.

[fireheart17]

Down here scholarships are broken into three categories: research, private and government.

Research: generally offered to postgrads or for undergraduates who want to do a work-study program, these scholarships are more research grants if anything.

Private: As it says on the can, generally these are offered in specific fields.

Government: this is split into two sub-categories: university-based and state/federal-based. The university-based ones are for things like overseas exchange scholarships, while the state/federal based scholarships are more for the disadvantaged.

[Nekojin]

Let's try it this way, Greenday. Of the three possibilities, which do you think is more likely:

1.) You had an easier path than the average black person.
2.) You had a harder path than the average black person.
3.) You had precisely the same difficulty as the average black person.

[Greenday]

A black person, born in the same town as me, raised the same, getting the same grades and such, would have either had it the same or easier.

I could see how it'd be the complete opposite if I lived somewhere where race really matters for some reason, but my area is extremely liberal and quite frankly, people just don't seem to give a crap what you look like or what's between your legs.

[Nekojin]

A black person, born in the same town as me, raised the same, getting the same grades and such, would have either had it the same or easier.

Can you back this up with more than a feeling and a hand-wave at some affirmative-action scholarships?

[Andara Bledin]

I dismiss it because it isn't proof that I have lived in privilege life. Statistics mean nothing if they aren't relevant.

First, I'm not quite certain what you're trying to say with your first sentence; it looks like you started to say one thing then changed your mind part way through.

Regardless, the whole phrase "privileged life" is so loaded, it's essentially nothing more than a dog whistle in this debate.

Just because the only "privilege" you've encountered has been more a lack of prejudice does not change the fact that you have been treated better based on nothing more than the color of your skin.

You know that car you just bought? White women get charged more than white men, and black men get charged even more.

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

I think that there may be a problem here in that there's a difference between "privilege" the sociological concept and "privilege" colloquially. Nobody is saying GD's life has been easy, only that it's been easier.

Someone compared it to playing through the game of life on easy mode. But what's key to that is that doesn't mean you've 'won.' Only that you have it easy-ER. Not that your life has been sunshine and roses, or that you haven't encountered problems. I've been playing Max Payne 3 on the easiest difficulty and I can't get past the Galatians level. >_<

It's easier to be male than female. But that doesn't mean that being male means I'm a millionaire. Or that I have encountered no problems coming from my gender. Even ignoring ones like "people look at me funny when I comment that a guy is hot" there's other SPECIFIC ways that it's harder to be male. But in general, it's harder to be female than male.

Similarly, in general it's harder to be gay than straight. Or black than white. But that doesn't translate to "White? YOU HAVE IT MADE! Straight? NOTHING BAD WILL EVER HAPPEN TO YOU!"

[HYHYBT]

But no one has yet to prove just one point of how my being a white male has given me privilege.

If it doesn't happen to me, it doesn't apply to me.

"Privilege" in these cases often isn't that you're treated better than you ought to be. It's that everybody else *ought* to be treated the same way, but isn't quite. It doesn't necessarily mean it's intentional, or that those disprivileging (sorry) people unlike yourself even realize they're doing it. That's one reason it's backed up with statistics, by the way: the sentencing, for instance, any single case could have turned out that way with characteristics such as race changed. There's no way to prove that X's trial was unfair, but the pattern makes it plain to anyone not willfully closing themselves off to the possibility that overall there is a bias.

Privilege in a nutshell:

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/10/1...k-about-today/

Excellent link.

The problem with proving that white males aren't treated the same as blacks or women is that it's a case of proving a negative, making it very difficult.

This is one of those times where I really hate the "positive assertion gets the burden of proof" way of thinking, because which way is positive and which is negative so often comes down to how the claim is worded. "Whites are not treated the same" sounds negative, but only because you didn't phrase the exact same concept as "whites are treated differently." And of course there's plenty of evidence (if not, strictly speaking, proof) in the links further on.

The only ones I can say happen for certain are "Today I don’t have to think about men who don’t believe no means no." and "Today I don’t have to think about eyes going to my chest first." I've never seen evidence of the other stuff happening in my life to the people around me.

Then you're not paying enough attention. And don't just sit there and repeat "prove it" at people: the proof is right in front of your face if you will just see it. I admit, though, it's harder to see (especially clearly) when you're not on the disadvantaged side, because very little of it these days is anywhere near overt.

Now, having said that, of course there are contexts in which privilege is vastly lessened, and some in which it's reversed. Though the latter tend to be a *reaction* to the normal state of things, rather than being the reverse in the simplest sense. For example (and heading away from race) in the United States, straight people are privileged relative to known gays. To a lesser extent than in the past, of course, and very little in some areas, but in general it's still true (and some aspects are still enforced by nationwide law.) Where is this reversed? Perhaps in a very few mostly-gay neighborhoods; I wouldn't know… but I'm thinking of something along the lines of gay bars that don't allow (straight) bachelorette parties, and where a straight couple making out would attract the unwanted sort of attention. The reversal depends on the general condition (primarily generated either from "gays are icky" or "gays are sinful"): the parties are unwelcome because they're seen as throwing it in people's faces that you're celebrating something they are not allowed to have (because the law says only male-female couples may marry, because politicians and voters say gays are icky and/or sinners).

[Greenday]

Then you're not paying enough attention. And don't just sit there and repeat "prove it" at people: the proof is right in front of your face if you will just see it. I admit, though, it's harder to see (especially clearly) when you're not on the disadvantaged side, because very little of it these days is anywhere near overt.

Or it just doesn't happen. Why are you guys so convinced that it happens all the time in my life when none have you have seen any evidence of the sort?

Can you back this up with more than a feeling and a hand-wave at some affirmative-action scholarships?

Black kids that I went to school with never got mistreated by the police or authority figures, got good grades, got into colleges, and got scholarships because the color of their skin is different.

Just because the only "privilege" you've encountered has been more a lack of prejudice does not change the fact that you have been treated better based on nothing more than the color of your skin.

You know that car you just bought? White women get charged more than white men, and black men get charged even more.

Do you have proof that non-white people have been dealing with prejudice here? Cause I certainly can't find any.

Invalid argument. Everyone pays the same price when you build a new car. You can go online and get the exact same price I got.

[Andara Bledin]

Invalid argument. Everyone pays the same price when you build a new car. You can go online and get the exact same price I got.

Only if you have the money up front; money trumps everything, usually, when it comes to privilege.

And if you well and truly believe that there has never been anything in your life that was the tiniest bit easier because you're white, then there's really no point in discussing this with you further.

"You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear."

^-.-^

[Nekojin]

Greenday: Lachrymose suggested that you live in Baltimore. If that's correct, then perhaps you should check these links out.

Legal scholars prove Baltimore's racist ways
Students draw KKK-inspired images in class (note that this was 5 days ago!)
Two Klansmen convicted of racial attack in Baltimore - much older, but only 23 years ago.

[Lachrymose]

No, he's in NJ I believe. (I'm in Baltimore)

Still.."just down 95"..by a few hours.

[Greenday]

Only if you have the money up front; money trumps everything, usually, when it comes to privilege.

And if you well and truly believe that there has never been anything in your life that was the tiniest bit easier because you're white, then there's really no point in discussing this with you further.

"You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear."

^-.-^

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Since no one here seems to understand life in my region, debating about it is going to be too tough to do.

I've been to Baltimore a few times. Life is quite different there. I mean, NYC is only an hour away but my area is certainly a lot different than the city.