Bad cops.

[HYHYBT]

Even if the police had located an employee with keys and informed them that everything looked secure, the employee might have deemed it unnecessary to come out.

And who's most likely to be the contact? One or both of the owners. Which means there's a fair chance that they guy they'd be waiting for was the one who was already inside.

What bothers me is that the power was out for two days in the first place, when there was no disaster or ice storm or anything going on. I've been in two situations where what sounds like the same thing happened, and the longer outage was still only a few hours.

[Canarr]

That might just have been some defect in the wiring of the building.

[Greenday]

The article says that the police were notified of an alarm; I would hope that somebody would ask if it was a freezer alarm

Why? If someone told me a security alarm went off at a cafe, the first question to pop in my head would not be, "Oh, is it the freezer?" That question would probably never even occur to me.

[crashhelmet]

Why? If someone told me a security alarm went off at a cafe, the first question to pop in my head would not be, "Oh, is it the freezer?" That question would probably never even occur to me.

The alarm tripped was from a panic button. Again, placed inside the cooler because that's where employees are locked out of the way in a robbery.

[KnitShoni]

Ok. But, generally, robbers don't lock doors. The only time doors are unlocked during closing hours is to let employees in or out.

The also generally, if they're going to rob a restaurant, wait until after closing time, because there aren't a whole lot of people, the doors are locked and unlocked so employees can leave, and cash drop hasn't yet been made. This restaurant was closed due to a power outage, and had been for two days. There most likely was no money there.

The lights were out. Power had been restored earlier that day. Common sense would suggest that if someone were there, owner or robber, at least some of the lights would have been on.

It was also in a building known for errant alarms caused by the same electrical surges that caused the power outage. So, yeah, that's where the alarm was tripped. If there's no sign of anything wrong between the front doors and where the alarm was tripped, why would they not think it was a false alarm?

[crashhelmet]

Ok. But, generally, robbers don't lock doors. The only time doors are unlocked during closing hours is to let employees in or out.

If the robbers found an alternate way in, like say through roof access, air ducts, or even cutting a hole in the wall/window, the doors would never have been unlocked in the first place.

The also generally, if they're going to rob a restaurant, wait until after closing time, because there aren't a whole lot of people, the doors are locked and unlocked so employees can leave, and cash drop hasn't yet been made. This restaurant was closed due to a power outage, and had been for two days. There most likely was no money there.

They could've been after more than just money. They could have been taking advantage of the power outage and looting the place.

The lights were out. Power had been restored earlier that day. Common sense would suggest that if someone were there, owner or robber, at least some of the lights would have been on.

Robbers typically don't like to draw attention to themselves by turning lights on.

It was also in a building known for errant alarms caused by the same electrical surges that caused the power outage. So, yeah, that's where the alarm was tripped. If there's no sign of anything wrong between the front doors and where the alarm was tripped, why would they not think it was a false alarm?

Again, a potential robber could have used a different access point than the front doors. Secondly, the police are supposed to respond to and investigate situations like this, not make assumptions.

This is like the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf. Police got so tired of responding to false alarms that they neglected their jobs and assumed it was yet another "short" in the system. Regardless of whether or not they could've save him, they still failed to do their jobs.

[Andara Bledin]

Secondly, the police are supposed to respond to and investigate situations like this, not make assumptions.

Have you talked to cops in this situation?

My company has had way more contact with cops and fire officials due than any company should due to the local ADT office being incompetent (we kicked them to the curb a while back and had to threaten to charge them for storage of their equipment to get them to come and get it and stop trying to charge us for its rental >_< ), and unfortunately, issues with false alarms are way too common and waste a lot of time. It's not really the cops' fault that they chose to work on something that was more obviously a problem than this incident.

They spoke to the security for the building, who had no idea the guy was there. They went to the restaurant, which was locked and dark, giving them absolutely zero reason to suspect that anyone was there; why would he have gone in, in the dark, and not told the on site security that he was tooling around at 3 in the morning?

While it is unfortunate that this guy is dead, as I mentioned earlier he was dead long before the cops even got there; they couldn't have saved him unless they'd been in the building already when the alarm was tripped.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

Have you talked to cops in this situation?

^-.-^

In this exact situation? No. In similar situations? Yes.

At my company, we have some sort of glitch with our phone system that randomly dials 911. Every time it happens, Las Vegas Metro comes knocking on our door and we have to have to let them in and let them perform a grand tour of the building. Because most doors are locked with a key card, we have to have someone escort them. This has been going on for the 5 years I've been with the company. I have no idea how long it was going on before I started. But they check it out every time because it's a part of their job.

One of the many side jobs I had when I was teaching was repossessing cars. If the police were called by a neighbor that didn't know what I was doing, and they got there before I could call the repo in, I'd get treated like a car thief until all of my paperwork was verified. Didn't matter how many times it was the same officer(s) there to investigate it, my partner and I would get removed from the cars, and sometimes cuffed and sat in the back of the squad car. Again, they were doing their jobs.

And that's what my beef is here. I've already stated that they probably didn't stand a chance to save the guy's life. it's the fact that they just assumed everything was fine because it passed their basic eyeball test.

But if that's fine with you, does that mean this is too?

Because that is the specific location where the alarm was tripped.

But sadly, this isn't unusual. There was a woman raped in her own home after calling 911 because the police didn't bother to check inside her house.

[Andara Bledin]

At my company, we have some sort of glitch with our phone system that randomly dials 911. Every time it happens, Las Vegas Metro comes knocking on our door and we have to have to let them in and let them perform a grand tour of the building.

You must have quite the surplus of cops and a lack of actual crime going on over there, then. I live and work in Compton, however, and we don't even have a police force; that's contracted out to the LA County Sheriff's Department, which is stretched thin at the best of times, and if it's a busy night anywhere in the county, those of us in the city of Compton are pretty SOL.

In a perfect world, they should, what, break into buildings every time that they get an alarm and can't find anything wrong? Who gets to pay for the broken locks, doors, and windows?

One of the many side jobs I had when I was teaching was repossessing cars.

Straw man. You're comparing a situation with no sign of anything wrong with a situation with people breaking into cars. There's no relation beyond police being involved.

But if that's fine with you, does that mean this is too?

Straw man for the same reason as above. You're comparing a situation in which a 911 operator made a particularly stupid judgement call after having been contacted by a person actually reporting a break-in in progress with a check-up on an automated and known to be semi-faulty alarm system after power was returned after a long outage, which is a known factor for causing false alarms. Again, other than the fact that police were sent to investigate, the two situations are not comparable.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

You must have quite the surplus of cops and a lack of actual crime going on over there, then. I live and work in Compton, however, and we don't even have a police force; that's contracted out to the LA County Sheriff's Department, which is stretched thin at the best of times, and if it's a busy night anywhere in the county, those of us in the city of Compton are pretty SOL.

In a perfect world, they should, what, break into buildings every time that they get an alarm and can't find anything wrong? Who gets to pay for the broken locks, doors, and windows?

The Las Vegas Metropolitan area isn't anywhere as big as LA County, nor do we have the same crime statistics. Then again, Metro has a reputation of shooting first and asking questions later, so maybe that's why they care enough to send people to our building.

Straw man. You're comparing a situation with no sign of anything wrong with a situation with people breaking into cars. There's no relation beyond police being involved.

It's not a straw man argument. They showed up and did their jobs. They could've taken my word for it that I was repossessing the car after seeing the repo order. But no, they called my boss as well as the bank (if open) before letting me go.

Start Edit
And oh... Me sitting in a car that belongs to someone else, with witnesses seeing me peek in the windows checking the VIN, and then possibly using a slim jim to open the door and hotwire it doesn't account as a "sign of anything wrong with a situation." Are witnesses reporting possible crimes something that can be disregarded?
End Edit

Straw man for the same reason as above. You're comparing a situation in which a 911 operator made a particularly stupid judgement call after having been contacted by a person actually reporting a break-in in progress with a check-up on an automated and known to be semi-faulty alarm system after power was returned after a long outage, which is a known factor for causing false alarms. Again, other than the fact that police were sent to investigate, the two situations are not comparable.

^-.-^

Yes, the 911 operator made a stupid judgement call, but the so did the police that were there. But how are they not comparable? In both situations, the police were dispatched out to a location to investigate a distress call. it doesn't matter if one was through 911 or through an alarm system. They were dispatched out to the locations. Their job at that point was to investigate, which they did not do.

[KnitShoni]

They did investigate. What they found led them to believe there was no reason to investigate further.

[Greenday]

If the robbers found an alternate way in, like say through roof access, air ducts, or even cutting a hole in the wall/window, the doors would never have been unlocked in the first place.

Come on, really? This is real life, not a movie.

[crashhelmet]

Come on, really? This is real life, not a movie.

No?

There's this guy

And this guy

Let's not forget this guy

Then there's this guy that went through a wall to score drugs

Here's another where they robbed a mini-mart, where the alarm went off several times and the police were told they were not needed.

[Greenday]

And for those few insane nutcases, there's thousands of other cases of normal break ins.

[Andara Bledin]

The Las Vegas Metropolitan area isn't anywhere as big as LA County, nor do we have the same crime statistics. Then again, Metro has a reputation of shooting first and asking questions later, so maybe that's why they care enough to send people to our building.

Actually, it's kind of funny that you're in Las Vegas; all the way back in 2003, the Las Vegas Fire Department stopped responding to purely automated alarms altogether and Henderson took up the same policy for all emergency responders in 2008.

Steven Goble, a Henderson deputy fire chief, said 99.994 percent of 4,019 calls prompted by automatic alarms were false during a three-year period ending last May. None of the calls needed fire suppression, but they resulted in 16,000 man-hours costing more than $400,000, he said. (Those figures, however, reflect normal staff salaries that would be paid and hours that would be worked regardless.)

It's not a straw man argument. They showed up and did their jobs. They could've taken my word for it that I was repossessing the car after seeing the repo order. But no, they called my boss as well as the bank (if open) before letting me go.

Yes, it is. The alarm situation would be like them showing up and finding the car sitting, alone, without anybody near it, not them showing up and finding you there. If you cannot see the difference in those situations, I'm actually surprised you're still alive. (and no, that's not an exaggeration)

Are witnesses reporting possible crimes something that can be disregarded?

We're not talking about witnesses reporting crimes, which is why both of your examples are completely irrelevant.

We're talking about an automated alarm system that is known to give false alarms that had just come back online after an extended outage which is also known to make even perfect systems give false alarms.

And, since it hasn't sunk in anyway, they guy was already dead. No amount of investigating and property damage in the name of safety was going to save him. His fate was sealed the moment he let that door close behind him.

Oh, yeah, and you didn't answer my question: Who pays for all of the damage incurred by police officers responding to false alarms in the course of their investigations?

^-.-^