"Batman Massacre"

[HYHYBT]

My point is that lethal force was immediately used despite what all the possible facts of the situation might be.

One of the pieces of information they didn't have was whether or not it was safe to wait for further information before acting. Often, robbers' guns *are* functional and loaded. Sometimes, robbers kill even when everybody does what they say to do. Always, people have to make their choices (including the choice of whether to act now or wait for more information) based on the information they have and their guesses at the rest. Looking back with perfect knowledge and saying "well, since it was found out afterwards the gun(s) weren't loaded, since it was found out afterwards that they had no intention to harm anyone but only to commit robbery, you should have acted on that knowledge you didn't have and done nothing" is nonsense, pure and simple.

They look like two teenage thugs and they stated their intentions outloud when they entered.

Of course. Because while they were, at that point, known to be willing at least to threaten people with guns and commit robbery, you can just tell from their looks that they'd never stoop to *lying.*

Yep, tried to restore sanity quite a few pages ago, got lost in the maelstrom. Every time a tragedy happens, people try to figure out WHY. Some jump on the easiest possible scapegoat, and run it into the ground. Others will counter, and run their end to the ground. Guns, no guns, costumes, no costumes. Instead of mourning the tragedy, we rail against the night..and perpetuate anger and only want to be RIGHT..regardless the cost.

Figuring out WHY would require learning about the contents of the head of the guy who did it. So far, he hasn't said why… and many people have suggested that even if he does, it shouldn't be reported because he doesn't deserve the attention. To me, what he deserves (beyond appropriate punishment) isn't the point: the public deserves that question answered if an answer becomes available.

Your chance of injury/death is undeniably higher if you resist, especially with a firearm.

And yet, there remain cases where one has saved its carrier or another innocent person from injury or death. There are, then, *two* approaches to improving the odds: never resisting, or doing better at judging which individual situations will be improved by resisting and which will be made worse.

How do you know that the people involved in this debate do not feel remorse or grief?

I for one don't feel remorse or grief over the shooting. Remorse would be inappropriate, and probably impossible, because remorse means regretting something you have done, and *I* didn't do this. I strongly suspect that nobody else on Fratching! did either. And similarly, grief is for when you've lost someone, not when you've just heard about the deaths of total strangers. I feel sadness and curiosity, but not grief or remorse.

[Greenday]

I'm not upset about the memories of the people who died at Aurora. Though I'd rather we put the debate in a different thread because, well, there are some other things about the shooting that might be discussed as well.

I am upset that I know most of the people involved are perfectly reasonable, intelligent people, but aren't debating reasonably and intelligently.

What debate did you expect to come from this? I mean, this is a debate board and this story is about shootings. Where else could this have really gone?

[HYHYBT]

What debate did you expect to come from this? I mean, this is a debate board and this story is about shootings. Where else could this have really gone?

Oh, there are other ways. It was possible it would focus on how sad the whole thing is, though in that case the thread would have died quickly because there's simply not much more to say there. Instead of going through prevention into gun control, it could have gone through punishment into the death penalty, or even (as was the subject of another thread not long ago) gone into the appropriateness of sentencing multiple consecutive life sentences. It could yet turn into a discussion of what the discussion ought to be about which would be an improvement over rehashing the last however many pages yet again. And so on.

[TheHuckster]

To steer this thread back to the OT, he was formally charged:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...-colo-rampage/

One thing I'm curious about is why is he being charged twice for each casualty?

[crashhelmet]

To steer this thread back to the OT, he was formally charged:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...-colo-rampage/

One thing I'm curious about is why is he being charged twice for each casualty?

To guarantee the conviction. In a sense, they're swinging for a homerun but will settle for the double/triple.

If they only charged him with first-degree murder with extreme indifference and failed to prove their case, he could possibly be acquitted. The same goes for the "regular" First-Degree murder charges. They want to make sure he gets convicted.

[Andara Bledin]

Not only that he's convicted, but that the sentencing ensures he doesn't see the light of day again.

^-.-^

[lordlundar]

To guarantee the conviction. In a sense, they're swinging for a homerun but will settle for the double/triple.

If they only charged him with first-degree murder with extreme indifference and failed to prove their case, he could possibly be acquitted. The same goes for the "regular" First-Degree murder charges. They want to make sure he gets convicted.

Yeah, we had covered this in another thread here (yup, here it is) where the jury can only find guilty of the charges presented. The lesser one is if they can't get a conviction on the greater one as sort of a safety net. The greater charge might not pass muster considering he surrendered himself to police so they have the regular first degree charge just in case.

[Gravekeeper]

To go back to my trifecta of misery and bring up an earlier point:

It turns out not only was he in therapy, his therapist had warned her colleagues that he was a potential threat to others 6 weeks prior.

But the threat assessment team didn't convene fast enough and he dropped out. So they apparently didn't follow up in any way.