IRS Buttfuckery

[draco664]

Not to mention, that thing is ugly as hell.

Oh yeah.


You couldn't pay me to display that.

I can *almost* see the IRS's side. That it's illegal to sell doesn't mean that it cannot be sold; after all, it's illegal to sell cocaine, too, but when there's a bust big enough to make the news they report a value of the drugs seized, and it's far from nothing.

According to the linked article, it's also illegal to possess.

Street value, yes. But the IRS's guidelines state

I.R.S. guidelines say that in figuring an item’s fair market value, taxpayers should “include any restrictions, understandings, or covenants limiting the use or disposition of the property.”

If you can't get a penny for a work without becoming a felon, logic suggests that the work has a fair market value of nothing.

It's interesting to note that originally the IRS decided its value was $15 million, and only upped it to $65m when the family objected.

So, if said individual moves, he can't take it with him... or is there a caveat to the law for moving but keeping same ownership?

That is a legal minefield, due in no small part to the previous owner not getting formal permission to retain it.

From the NYT article

In this instance, the 1940 Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act and the 1918 Migratory Bird Treaty Act make it a crime to possess, sell, purchase, barter, transport, import or export any bald eagle — alive or dead. Indeed, the only reason Mrs. Sonnabend was able to hold onto “Canyon,” Mr. Lerner said, was due to an informal nod from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service in 1981.

So, my official opinion is, I've got no fscking clue. I imagine that teams of lawyers working around the clock for $MEGABUCKS would also eventually come to the same conclusion. Let a judge sort it out.

Donate it to a museum, take the write off.

Problem solved.

Also from the article above - the children's lawyer on the option of donating it.

Mr. Lerner said that since the children assert the Rauschenberg has no dollar value for estate purposes, they could not claim a charitable deduction by donating “Canyon” to a museum. If the I.R.S. were to prevail in its $65 million valuation, he said the heirs would still have to pay the $40.9 million in taxes and penalties regardless of a donation.

All in all, it's a messed up situation.

[MrsEclipse]

Wait, so it has no value as a donation, but it does have value if they keep it? That's dirt balls.

[telecom_goddess]

I think it's ridiculous that it's being taxed in the first place ONLY because it was inherited. That's just an excuse to squeeze more money out of people. I plan to not "leave" anything to anyone when I die ...they can say I "gave" it to them before I passed on. Can't tax a gift.

[MrsEclipse]

I think it's ridiculous that it's being taxed in the first place ONLY because it was inherited. That's just an excuse to squeeze more money out of people. I plan to not "leave" anything to anyone when I die ...they can say I "gave" it to them before I passed on. Can't tax a gift.

Actually, your estate will still have to pay taxes if it's over a certain amount. They made that law specifically to discourage doing that.

[telecom_goddess]

Actually, your estate will still have to pay taxes if it's over a certain amount. They made that law specifically to discourage doing that.

How will it ever be tracked? If I have a house full of electronics or whatever that is semi valuable and I tell people to take it out of my house before I die cause I'm giving to them, how will anyone ever know?

I suppose it matters more in estates where there is substantial value like huge bank accounts or expensive art or a house or something. But even with that couldn't you "sell" these things to someone for a dollar before you die and they can't do crap about it?

[Nekojin]

How will it ever be tracked? If I have a house full of electronics or whatever that is semi valuable and I tell people to take it out of my house before I die cause I'm giving to them, how will anyone ever know?

I suppose it matters more in estates where there is substantial value like huge bank accounts or expensive art or a house or something. But even with that couldn't you "sell" these things to someone for a dollar before you die and they can't do crap about it?

The current estate tax has a floor (actually an "exemption") of 5 million dollars. An estate large enough to get hit by an estate tax isn't going to be worrying about the DVD player.

[Andara Bledin]

Can't tax a gift.

Actually, they do tax gifts. And as this painting is valued at far above the threshold for such things (usually $10,000), it would have been taxable either way.

^-.-^