"It's what we were taught" at school....

[Zod]

Just because you're in too much of a hurry to wait for the light to change does not make it ok to just cross wherever.

^-.-^

Why not? He wasn't hit by anything : so it was clearly safe to cross. It seems crazy to me that someone's going to waste time waiting for the light to change when a road is clear.

I suppose if the traffic light was broken, you'd expect him to wait by the side of the road for several days until the council sent out someone to fix it?

[TheHuckster]

Why not? He wasn't hit by anything : so it was clearly safe to cross.

You sound like a drunk driver I knew once. "Ease up, man, I made it home safely!"

The biggest problem with crossing the street close, but not at, the intersection is you don't know if there's a car that's going to turn the corner too fast and hit you before it even sees you. Sure, perhaps the driver might be in the wrong for driving too fast, but that doesn't change the fact you were hit by the car because you thought it was safe to cross.

This is coming from someone who lives in the densely populated northeast, where chronic jaywalking is probably more dangerous than chronic smoking.

[SongsOfDragons]

All the Yanks I know who have come to the UK are terrified when we casually cross relatively busy roads safely We'd usually have to hold hands to get them across. We have crossings but I suppose not at the same density as in the US to maintain traffic flow; and the Green Cross Code is indeed drilled into our heads at school.

...but I suppose that's beside the point. ^^

[Andara Bledin]

Why not? He wasn't hit by anything : so it was clearly safe to cross.

That time. What about next time? Or the time after that?

Plus, it wasn't as clear as he thought it was or he wouldn't have gotten a ticket.

^-.-^

[lordlundar]

Spot on. If it looks safe, then go. If a driver isn't good enough to break, or go around someone trying to cross a street, then they shouldn't be allowed to drive.

Laws of physics be damned huh?

Many a street pizza incidents have occurred as a result of that insane logic.

[Zod]

The biggest problem with crossing the street close, but not at, the intersection is you don't know if there's a car that's going to turn the corner too fast and hit you before it even sees you. Sure, perhaps the driver might be in the wrong for driving too fast, but that doesn't change the fact you were hit by the car because you thought it was safe to cross.

If the driver's speeding, and it's a blind corner, then it doesn't matter if the light's red or green, you're in danger of being hit.

A traffic light turning red doesn't generate a forcefield across the street stopping all traffic from going through the crossing : the driver still needs to see the light, and hit the breaks.

Is there a difference between a driver breaking because they see a red light, and because they see a person crossing the road?

A little common sense needs to apply on both sides : if you can see or hear a car coming, and they look / sound close enough that you can't make it across in time : wait. If a driver sees someone who looks like they're about to step into the street, slow up, and be prepared to hit the breaks if they make a run for it.

If a person can't handle basic situational awareness : they shouldn't be allowed to drive.

[protege]

Laws of physics be damned huh?

There's simply no way that vehicles--especially very large ones--can stop on a dime. There's just too much momentum, which tends to increase on slick roads. With that said, even a 25mph impact from a little car (Geo Metro, for example) could land someone in the hospital.

Even so, some types of pedestrians just piss me off. I'm sure everyone is familiar with the idiots who insist on walking down the middle of the street. Never mind that there's a perfectly good (and safer) sidewalk not far away. These people piss me off, since there's no reason to be in the middle of the damn street...and they refuse to move. Seriously, get the fuck out of the way! Then there are the folks who have the "walk" signal, and just stand there. Then, as soon as *my* light turns green, they step out into the street and take their good old time crossing Again, get the fuck out of the street.

[TheHuckster]

If the driver's speeding, and it's a blind corner, then it doesn't matter if the light's red or green, you're in danger of being hit.

When you're crossing at the intersection at a crosswalk, you are very clearly seen. If you choose to cross the street in such a way that the driver can't even see you until AFTER they've made the turn, that what makes it dangerous to the pedestrian and anyone near you, hence why it's a fineable offense.

[HYHYBT]

Also, at an intersection, YOU can see the car coming up the other street. This is much less likely when you're not right at the corner.

"Nobody got hurt this time, so it must have been safe" is unsound thinking.


Now, another country makes a difference as well. Not only are the pedestrians used to crossing in different places, but the DRIVERS are used to expecting it.

[Seifer]

I see that at least once a week here, and only that little because I don't go out more often than I do. They won't wait for a lull in traffic, they won't walk one block to the traffic light, and they won't even pick up the pace. Half the time I don't know how the car managed to stop in time.

The only consolation in that scenario is that the driver would be very likely to win any and all lawsuits filed against them. The jaywalker would be completely at fault for crossing in the middle of a busy road, and would probably receive a ticket, if they weren't flattened in the accident.

[Tanasi]

The local university in my AO is very very adamant about enforcing the cross-walks. The university PD and the local city PD spend the first couple of weeks each fall semester writing Jay-walking tickets. It does no good to challenge because the judge will not dismiss. I gotta say I when passing through the university I rarely see anyone jay-walking and then usually it's not a student.
I travel a very busy highway to and from work and when I see people trying to cross it afoot all that comes to mind is "fools." Now in most cases on this highway if you're gonna cross you won't cross at a light because in most places it's miles between lights. In the nearly 30 years of traveling this road I've never found the need to cross it afoot. The two times I've been afoot on this highway I was involved in a wreck (not my fault) and then I only crossed half the highway to stand in a driveway until the LEOs and FD arrived. To tell the truth just making a left on this highway in a car is a scary act and I try real hard to only do this at lights. I don't need the experience of getting run down to know it's not pleasant.

[Jester]

I have bitched and moaned many times, online and IRL, about idiot pedestrians when I am driving. And so it may surprise some of you when I come out in favor of the jay walker.

Let me rephrase that....since I don't know the situation of the guy from the linked article, I cannot say whether or not I am on his side. But in general, I am in favor of jay walkers, if they are doing it intelligently.

See, there are times when it is perfectly safe and perfectly fine to cross a busy road. When? When that road isn't busy. Trying to cross at rush hour without using the intersection or light is pure and utter folly. But to be ticketed for crossing safely when the road is not busy is equally stupid.

Plus, it wasn't as clear as he thought it was or he wouldn't have gotten a ticket.

Wait, are you telling me that police officers only ticket people who cross unsafely? That they would never ticket someone for jaywalking when the road is empty?

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA!!!!!

Oh, that's rich, my friend. Rich...and completely, utterly wrong.

And here, I am not speaking in abstracts, but from personal experience.

This is the location of my high school, McClintock High. Notice its proximity to McClintock Drive to the west. (The McClintocks were apparently an influential family in Arizona's history.) Notice also its proximity to Southern Avenue to the south.

McClintock and Southern are both major arterial roads. In the Phoenix area, such roads generally have speed limits of about 50 mph, and are busy. They area also about six to eight lanes across. These are not residential streets.

When I was 17, I got a jaywalking ticket for not crossing McClintock. No, that was not a typo. I said I got a jaywalking ticket for NOT crossing McClintock.

How? Well, after school, I was heading to one of the businesses across McClintock for some reason. (Don't ask me what...this was 1987!) And, making sure that McClintock was quite clear, I took two steps into the road....and saw a police officer across the street, in the shopping center parking lot, writing a ticket to a driver in a car. So, I quickly retreated back to the east side of McClintock.

And....he still ticketed me. For two steps.

"But Jester, you just said that McClintock is a busy road." Yes. Yes it is. But it, like most arterial roads in the Phoenix area, has traffic lights that are far, far apart from one another. And as I just said, I had just checked to make sure the road was clear. NO cars were coming from the north or the south. The road, at about 3:30 in the afternoon, long after the school traffic had dissipated and quite before rush hour, was empty. Absolutely safe for an alert person such as myself.

Now, some people may think that, because I was a teenager, I was being unnecessarily reckless and foolish. And that, because I was a teenager, my thoughts that this ticket was idiotic was an overreaction. There are a couple of problems with that. 1. I had absolutely ascertained that the road was safe to cross. 2. My mother, who was NOT a teenager*, was even more outraged than I was. She insisted on fighting the ticket. Which we did. We lost, of course, but we fought it. Does our losing the court battle make the law and, more specifically, the enforcement of it that day any less stupid? Nope.

Look, I understand why there are laws and rules for safety. I get it. I understand why jaywalking laws exist. I do. But if a road is safe to cross, why should someone get a ticket for not schlepping an extra quarter mile each way just to cross at a light. like the one at McClintock and Southern?

Utterly ridiculous.

*I dare not post her actual age at the time of the incident for fear of violent reprisal from her. No, she doesn't read this site. But she's a mother. She'll just KNOW.

Secondary note: looking at that map brought back some serious memories. Nello's Pizza.....mmmmmmmm....

[Andara Bledin]

If you think about it, rewarding a kid who stopped doing something illegal just because they realized they were going to get caught isn't the best plan of action, is it?

Besides: look at the satellite for the school. There are three crosswalks at the school itself (one at each corner and another in the middle), and to be across from a parking lot, you'd have had to have been south of the school, which means that you could have crossed at Del Rio, which has a crosswalk now, and even if that wasn't the case then, is still a corner (which makes it legal to cross in California - I'm not up on the statutes in Arizona).

^-.-^

[Aethian]

I bet the crosswalks have been added since Jester went to school.

[Jester]

If you think about it, rewarding a kid who stopped doing something illegal just because they realized they were going to get caught isn't the best plan of action, is it?

Perhaps not. But it happens all the time in many walks of life, and you know it.

Besides: look at the satellite for the school. There are three crosswalks at the school itself (one at each corner and another in the middle), and to be across from a parking lot, you'd have had to have been south of the school, which means that you could have crossed at Del Rio, which has a crosswalk now, and even if that wasn't the case then, is still a corner (which makes it legal to cross in California - I'm not up on the statutes in Arizona).

Trust me when I tell you I don't have to look at the satellite, as I know that area intimately. Hell, when I was attending McClintock, I was able to walk to school, as we lived in a neighborhood just south of Southern.

I know about the crosswalks at Del Rio, and you are right...I was south of Del Rio when I realized I wanted to cross McClintock. I looked both ways, because I'm not an idiot, and when I saw no cars coming from either direction, I safely started to cross...not initially noticing the cop across the street, because, well, apparently I AM an idiot. But while it may not look like much, when you are between Del Rio and Southern, it can be a major pain to hike to either to cross.

And while it could be argued that I was being lazy (duh) and that Del Rio is not that far (that is a matter of opinion), there are countless other places in the Valley where to cross an arterial street, you literally have to walk damn far, but if you don't, you can get popped for jaywalking, no matter how safe it is, which is just freakin' stupid.

I bet the crosswalks have been added since Jester went to school.

You would lose that bet. Badly.