Cyber Bullying Must End.

[Jester]

There's been several stories in the news lately about cyber bullying, including some victims of it taking to the net to tell their story. My views on bullying in general are pretty well covered here, but of course my views on how bullies should be dealt with in that thread don't cover everyone or every situation. Some people are not built to deal with bullies the way I did, and some situations just don't allow it.

Today I saw a story that devastated me, about Amanda Todd and the bullying, both cyber and actual, that she was a victim of, and how it drove her to attempt suicide several times...and how she finally succeeded in her last attempt.

I challenge anyone to read this story and then watch Amanda's video, knowing what the end of the story was, and not have your guts wrenched out and tied in knots. Amanda admitted that she did some stupid things that contributed to the bullying--what teen hasn't done stupid stuff?--but when she changed schools and moved cities TWICE, you would think that would have been the end of it.

And you would have been wrong.

Because her bullies followed her online and in person, at various times either beating her up or posting pictures or comments online, including ones that wished her dead and suggested she keep trying suicide until she succeeded.

I have a message for Amanda's bullies.

Congratulations. You succeeded. Amanda Todd is now dead. Aren't you proud of yourselves? You ganged up on one girl, beat her up, left her lying on the ground, and then hounded her online until she felt like she had no place left to go, no place left to hide. You got what you wanted. Now, who's next? Who else are you going to harass, beat up, torture, stalk, and bully until you push them over the edge like you did Amanda?

Personally, I hope the lot of you dies slowly and painfully, alone and lonely, battered, beaten, bloodied, with the full weight of the evil you've done weighing down on your souls like the crushing weight Amanda felt from it.

I could probably say something eloquent and profound here, but honestly, it would be over your heads and beyond your grasp. So I'll leave my final thoughts to you, and to bullies like you, to a single line from a movie, a line so simple even you lot can understand it:

"Die screaming, motherfuckers."



To Amanda, who I never knew, but whose pain came through in her video, rest in peace. You didn't deserve this.

And to those like Amanda, who feel hounded, battered, beaten, ostracized, and struggling to hold on to hope: keep holding on. And remember....

You are not alone.

[Greenday]

I never get what drives people to bully someone so much that they develop severe depression and/or commit suicide. Does it make them feel tough? Or that they accomplished something important? Did they think they were making the world a better place? I'd just like to hear one reason why these kids thought what they were doing was okay.

[TheHuckster]

I never get what drives people to bully someone so much that they develop severe depression and/or commit suicide. Does it make them feel tough? Or that they accomplished something important? Did they think they were making the world a better place? I'd just like to hear one reason why these kids thought what they were doing was okay.

What REALLY pisses me off about these assholes is, even after the victim commits suicide, sometimes they show absolutely no remorse and even continue harassing and bullying the mourning family of the victim. To me, that's something that indicates the bullies have some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain and should be monitored for sociopathic or psychotic behavior.

[telecom_goddess]

I was the one bullies picked on in school. I just thank whoever or whatever that we didn't have online access back then. My life would have been miserable and i might have been driven to suicide.

[Jester]

To me, that's something that indicates the bullies have some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain and should be monitored for sociopathic or psychotic behavior.

Or perhaps they're just douchebags.

[Talon]

What REALLY pisses me off about these assholes is, even after the victim commits suicide, sometimes they show absolutely no remorse and even continue harassing and bullying the mourning family of the victim. To me, that's something that indicates the bullies have some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain and should be monitored for sociopathic or psychotic behavior.

Perhaps, or some of them may be nothing more than wretched trolls hiding behind a computer. Their victim didn't die, they just lost the game. I suspect if some were confronted and called out IRL, they'd shit their pants faster than Ted Nugent at a draft board.

[Andara Bledin]

I never get what drives people to bully someone so much...

Some are just sociopaths. Some are victims themselves and victimize others to regain some form of control. Some are just toadies and/or go-alongs, doing whatever it is the kids they follow or idolize do or tell them to do. And some are just sadists, who understand intellectually and emotionally exactly what they're doing and get off on having that much power over another person.

The fact that more often than not, the adults surrounding these cases completely fail to provide any support and protection for the children in such situations is deplorable.

This girl's parents obviously were doing what they could, but the parents of every one of her attackers are worthy of the same fate (or worse) than the kids who drove her to her death.

I do have to ask: How is it that the person using her topless image as his/her Facebook profile image isn't in jail for peddling kiddie porn? Her parents knew enough about what was going on to have her change schools; why didn't this turn into a story about how a stalker was harassing an underage girl and got tracked down and taken down by authorities using technology?

^-.-^

[TheHuckster]

Or perhaps they're just douchebags.

No. If someone was killed who, directly or indirectly, was due to something you did, and you don't have the decency to look back with even a little regret and at least cease your emotionally abusive behavior, that's beyond douchebaggery. That's fucking mental.

[Sarah Valentine]

A little while after I joined facebook I seen a link to a memorial page that a friends aunt put up, you wouldn't believe how many people posted hateful messages and disgusting pictures. Some people are just evil and sick and total bastards.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

I had a rough time will bullying in school. You can read some of what happened to me here:

http://www.fratching.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=146

I often wonder how things would have changed had the Internet/Myspace/Facebook/etc been around back then (1994).

The story says the girl was talked into flashing a webcam and then later another man said he would release that picture to everyone unless she did more stuff for him but regardless the pictures got out anyway.

Now the pictures would obviously constitute child pornography, but the story also notes the man who threatened her also had her name, address, school, relatives names, etc.

Unfortunately young people are often not careful enough about what info they post online. I am NOT blaming this girl for what happened to her, I think it's horrendous. I do think however, that she made a huge mistake flashing that webcam.

ALL THE SAME, a twelve year old just can't be expected to exercise the kind of judgment an older person might in the same situation. I'm sure she never thought the picture would get out.

That's why it's so important to follow one key rule with regards to what you put online: If you don't want everyone you know to potentially see it, don't post it.

On a final note, the girl's mistake does not in anyway excuse her assailants and I hope they are punished severely for their actions.

[Aethian]

What sickens me is one of the commenters was from a teacher who said that bullying will always happen and that we shouldn't expect the teachers to be able to stop it.

Gee I heard a variation of that growing up...

If aethian was more normal she wouldn't get picked on.
If aethian dressed more like the other kids she wouldn't have a problem.
If aethian didn't read at such a higher level she would get called those names.
If aethian would loose weight and look more normal they wouldn't say that.
If aethian learned to ignore them they would stop.
If aethian....

Now if only they did something to the other kids maybe I wouldn't have had issues. You should have seen how many whispered to me that they wished my dad hadn't screwed up and actually killed me like he tried. And yet it was always my fault and even more my fault when I tried fighting back because those kids wouldn't say that. Why didn't you know their parents said they wouldn't so I must be the trouble maker.

[Andara Bledin]

We shouldn't expect teachers, on their own, to stop it.

As often as not, their hands are tied in what they can do. The things a guy I know from the gaming conventions has to say about what he can, can't, and is required to do while teaching grade-school kids is insane.

This isn't a defense of those teachers who dismiss bullying as a "rite of passage" or similar, or who otherwise do nothing that they otherwise are permitted (or even required) to do to curb such activities and by that inaction imply that they condone such, or who actively encourage or participate.

It's just that teachers are only one part of the equation and the parents on both sides are most responsible. Teachers and law enforcement fall somewhere notably below them.

^-.-^

[TheHuckster]

We shouldn't expect teachers, on their own, to stop it.

...

It's just that teachers are only one part of the equation and the parents on both sides are most responsible. Teachers and law enforcement fall somewhere notably below them.

I think part of the problem is adults who are involved aren't aware of the whole story. Bullies can be caught red-handed from time to time, and when they do so, they should be met with enough punishment that they don't think of doing that again. However, the vast majority of the time bullies do their deeds when the adults' backs are turned, and because victims don't want to make a bad situation worse by "tattling" on them, those actions go unpunished. Most bullies aren't stupid enough to make their actions known to teachers and parents.

So, really, I think a lot of it comes down to when bullies are eventually caught at school, teachers absolutely have to make a big deal out of it. That includes calling the bully's parents, telling them what happened, and telling them why it's a big deal. Some parents just won't get it, of course, but many will probably take action if they're told what's going on sooner than later.

When I was growing up, I did have a classmate who was a bona-fide asshole who always picked on me. His bullying was always emotional, not physical, and the few times I told the teacher, she'd tell me to man up and shrug it off. It wasn't until the teacher finally noticed a very obvious pattern of bullying that she finally did something about it, and had a parent-teacher conference about it. From that point on, he treated me better. Hell, we're actually Facebook friends now after we bumped into eachother in college many years later. He's actually a cool guy now.

So, I don't know how teachers do it nowadays, but I think the first thing that needs to happen is to recognize that if someone is caught bullying once, to assume they've probably been doing it unseen many times before, and they need to treat it as such. No more shrugging off with "that has to be an isolated incident" or "it isn't as bad as I think it is." If the victim is visibly upset, then it is as bad as you think it is. Do whatever you can to nip it in the bud as soon as possible, and get the parents involved.

[Jester]

A little while after I joined facebook I seen a link to a memorial page that a friends aunt put up, you wouldn't believe how many people posted hateful messages and disgusting pictures. Some people are just evil and sick and total bastards.

I do believe it, because I've experienced it. Some time after my friend Tiny Dancer died, I came across a discussion about her on the net, from some people who had known her in various ways. The conversation got started by someone asking, "I heard she was dead. Is this true?" Or something along those lines. People bandied the idea back and forth, some saying some very cruel things. To be fair, some of the things said about her were, in fact, true. She was not perfect, and she certainly had her issues. But when I saw that someone had posted comments to the effect that TD had merely made the whole thing up as a rumor to get attention, that is when I jumped in with both feet. I explained in very uncertain terms that TD was dead, how she had been driven to her death, and that while some of the things said about her may have been true, she was still my friend and I was not going to just sit around and listen to these people say all this shit that WASN'T true about her. Eventually her sister also found this conversation, and jumped in as well.

Ever after it was confirmed that she had died, some people still had some horrible shit to say. Sure, people have pissed me off in my past, but I don't know that I would go that far out of my way to talk about them once they had died.

I do think however, that she made a huge mistake flashing that webcam.

Clearly she did. But she admitted as much in her video. I doubt she would have said otherwise.

That's why it's so important to follow one key rule with regards to what you put online: If you don't want everyone you know to potentially see it, don't post it.

True enough, but even for people who don't follow that rule, who make mistakes because they are young and invincible, as we all were once, such over the top harassment cannot and should not be tolerated.

On a final note, the girl's mistake does not in anyway excuse her assailants and I hope they are punished severely for their actions.

I think I made my hopes for their futures rather clear in my original post.

If aethian learned to ignore them they would stop.
If aethian....

I was told to ignore the bullies by my teachers and my mother. My father told me to strike back. My father was right.

Michael continued to bully me even after I ignored him. After I struck back and sent him to the nurse's office, he never bothered me again.
Gary continued to antagonize me even after I made a point of ignoring his hateful comments. After I struck back brutally and violently, he never bothered me again.
Douchebag 1 and Douchebag 2 continued to bully and harass me despite my best efforts to ignore them. After I slammed Douchebag 1's head into the trunk of a car, they never bothered me again.

Clearly these were physical and vocal bullies, and there was no social media at the time. It was a different situation. What worked for me would work for many bullying victims, but not all.

I don't have a solution, other than to say such things cannot any longer be tolerated. Severe bullying must not be tolerated, and punishments need to be handed down to bullies who don't get the hint that their shit needs to stop.

This isn't a defense of those teachers who dismiss bullying as a "rite of passage" or similar...

Some bullying IS a rite of passage. I am not talking about the bullshit that happened to the young girl who killed herself, or to the more extreme bullying where the tormentors just won't stop. But just like anything else, there are certain things you do need to say, "well, that's children."

"Hey Jester, you suck at baseball!"
"Hey Jester, love your curly hair....are you sure you're not a girl?"
"Hey Jester, no midgets allowed, shorty."

These are comments that annoyed me, to be sure, but they are part of the normal back-and-forth of childhood, and generally are not taken very far. Kids are cruel, it's true, and will make fun of anyone they deem worthy of their scorn, or anyone that's different.

What we often forget when these discussions come up is that children are not adults, and they are learning how to socialize. Quite often, childhood bullies and tormentors grow up to be really good people, sometimes because they grow out of the bullying, sometimes because they acquire more confidence and no longer feel like they need to push people around to hide their uncertainty, sometimes because they are shown through actions or words that their bullying is bullshit.

I have no idea if my childhood tormentors grew out of it, learned from their actions, or are still raging dickwads. For all I know, they might have ended up in the state house, or the jail house. I don't know.

I DO know that most of the kids that made the occasional hateful comment forgot about it within minutes, hours, days, weeks, months. A former tormentor often as not became a future friend. Or vice versa. Just as we do in adulthood, children change their social habits and social companions, for as many reasons as adults do. Most of these people were not bullies.

And we should not fall into the trap of labeling every hurtful comment as that of a bully. We can't always come to the rescue of children, nor should we. Children need to learn how to stand up for themselves, and to a degree, that is what the vast majority of minor bullying can and will teach them. I can't believe I am defending bullies, but to some small degree, such behavior is good as it is educational, for both bullies and victims alike.

Before anyone jumps on me, please refer back to my original post. Clearly I have issues with the bullies that drove this woman to depression and suicide. These are not the types of bullies I was referring to in the previous paragraph. Extreme bullying like this is, as some have pointed out, bordering on sociopathic, and MUST be stopped. Because the only thing victims of this type of bullying can learn from it is how to hide, how to run, and how to kill themselves.

We can't paint all hurtful childhood actions with the same brush. The vast majority of it IS children being children, and it is both educational and instructional. However, extreme bullying like with this young lady, and other recent stories like it, should be treated with a Zero Tolerance attitude, and the perpetrators should be punished.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

What sickens me is one of the commenters was from a teacher who said that bullying will always happen and that we shouldn't expect the teachers to be able to stop it.

Gee I heard a variation of that growing up...

If aethian was more normal she wouldn't get picked on.
If aethian dressed more like the other kids she wouldn't have a problem.
If aethian didn't read at such a higher level she would get called those names.
If aethian would loose weight and look more normal they wouldn't say that.
If aethian learned to ignore them they would stop.
If aethian....

Now if only they did something to the other kids maybe I wouldn't have had issues. You should have seen how many whispered to me that they wished my dad hadn't screwed up and actually killed me like he tried. And yet it was always my fault and even more my fault when I tried fighting back because those kids wouldn't say that. Why didn't you know their parents said they wouldn't so I must be the trouble maker.

The problem with this argument is that there are many different levels of bullying.

A lot of people who have either committed or come to close to committing suicide as a result of bullying have experienced much more than just the occasional name call and shove in the hallways.

But there's a stark difference between a kid who will say, try to knock your hat off your head every time you walk by him and a group of kids who commit to make a young persons life a living hell, both inside and outside of school.

The term "bullying" conjures up different images depending on who you are talking to and that can cause some people to dismiss the problem as a non-issue, whereas others (like me) feel it's a very serious problem.