Cyber Bullying Must End.

[Jester]

Two points I feel need to be made, and I will continue to hammer these points as long as it takes.

1. The people who drove Amanda Todd to her death need to be tried, as adults, for manslaughter. Yes, they are legally minors. But they are old enough to know what the hell they were doing. And if these vile bastards are, indeed, prosecuted for this crime--and it IS a crime!--it may just make other vile bastards down the road less likely to pursue the same kind of torture of some other person. Prosecution of these people may, indeed, save lives down the road. It's too late for Amanda. It is not too late for others.

2. Facebook has a strict "no nudity" policy, such that artistic pictures and photos of women breast-feeding have been summarily and draconically pulled off the site by them. And yet, somehow the chief tormentor of Amanda was able to use a picture of her naked boobs, the picture of a half-naked minor, as his profile picture. While I do NOT think that facebook should be held culpable for Amanda's death, I would like to hear them comment on HOW something like THAT profile pic could be allowed to happen.

[Rageaholic]

They found one of the jerks who tormented her after death.

Like most skilled trolls, he's pulling the "you're the real bullies" card, even though he's the one who starting the thing by trolling.

[Pixilated]

I've scanned this thread and don't think this particular item has been posted -- I apologize if it has -- it just showed up today on Yahoo! news. What do you think, did Christine Claveau do the right thing? Was the man's employer right or wrong? Should a person's online activities have this long of a reach?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/negative-am...005142381.html

[Jester]

I have no problem with the woman alerting the employer to the man's comments. I didn't read anywhere in the article where she did anything but alert them to the comments; in other words, she did not suggest firing, demotion, or a reprimand, though her comments clearly show she would have had no problem with any of the above.

I do not as much agree with the firing. Yes, the man is a jerk. But he was a jerk on his own time.* His store would have probably been better served with a simple, "Hey dude, cut that shit out" to the guy.

*If he used company time and/or computers to make this comment, I have zero problem with him being fired for misusing company equipment/time for personal issues. But not for the comment itself, as reprehensible as I find that comment.

To sum up my position: the dude's a jerk, but he shouldn't have been fired for being a jerk.

[Lace Neil Singer]

2. Facebook has a strict "no nudity" policy, such that artistic pictures and photos of women breast-feeding have been summarily and draconically pulled off the site by them. And yet, somehow the chief tormentor of Amanda was able to use a picture of her naked boobs, the picture of a half-naked minor, as his profile picture. While I do NOT think that facebook should be held culpable for Amanda's death, I would like to hear them comment on HOW something like THAT profile pic could be allowed to happen.

Apparently, Facebook won't know of a dodgy pic unless someone reports it, so if no-one reported it (and this guy's friends might be the same sort of sicko that he is) then they wouldn't know. Of course, if it was reported, then Facebook need a kick up the arse about allowing a man to have a half naked child as his profile pic.

One thing tho; I read in the paper about Amanda, and she was fifteen. Why was she allowed to get an account with Facebook (correct me if this is wrong, but I thought Facebook had a policy about not letting kids have an account), and why didn't her parents supervise her online? I am in no way condoning what was done to her, being a victim of bullying myself, but had her parents not allowed a vulnerable and naive child to spend time online unsupervised, perhaps she wouldn't have been groomed by this thing (no other word can really apply to him) into taking her top off.

[AdminAssistant]

The age limit for FB is 13, IIRC.

This incident really highlights the need for parents to monitor their kids on the net and, more importantly, for kids to be more aware about what they put on the net. It's not victim blaming to suggest that girls need to be told, emphatically and repeatedly, that it is never a good idea to sext or otherwise record yourself nude, never a good idea to expose your breasts to strangers, and always a good idea to report creepers.

[Andara Bledin]

Not just girls.

Sure, most of the creeps go after girls, but they go after boys, too.

^-.-^

[Jester]

While I agree that, in general, parents should be taking a more active and proactive role in their children's lives, I would also like to remind everyone commenting on the parenting angle that teenagers quite often do things that their parents don't know about, that they know their parents would disapprove of, and that they know are wrong, either as a violation of their parents' rules or even as a violation of the law.

I doubt there are many among us who can say that they didn't break the rules as teenagers, or that their parents knew of everything they did.

My mom was awesome, but to this very day, there are things I did that I never told her about. And I certainly did things that violated my parents' rules, and sometimes even the law.

I am a (mostly) responsible member of society, but as a teenager, I shoplifted, set small fires in trash cans, stole from my mother's bank account, joyrided in her car, tried recreational drugs, drank, and stayed out past my curfew, among other things. And I was the GOOD one of the three of her children! (No, really!)

Look, you can say that her parents should have been more involved in her life, but you actually don't know how involved they were. Teenagers are often not forthcoming with their parents about what is going on in their lives, even if they are hurting from it. Even ignoring the rules violations I mentioned above, my parents didn't know everything about my life when I was a teenager, because I really didn't want to be talking to them about such things. It was awkward, I was awkward, and my parents were just so....not cool. And this was my thought process back then when even THEN I knew my parents were cooler than most. (They still are, incidentally.)

So who knows how active the Todds were or tried to be in Amanda's life? You can try to monitor your kids only so much, but they will find a way around it, unless you become so restrictive it's ridiculous. (And incidentally, the children that come from such restrictive homes tended to be, in my experience, the wildest childs among us. I kinda doubt that that dynamic has changed all that much over the years.) Even if they had complete control over the net in their own house, could they control what she was doing on the net at other people's houses?

We are talking about teenagers here, people. I can't say how much or how little Amanda's parents were involved in her life, but to say that if they had been more involved this would not have happened is to ignore the basic truth of teenagers: they want to do things on their own, their parents be damned.

[Aethian]

I have a feeling they knew she was using the webcam to meet new people. My own Mom let me go into a 13-18 chat room when I was 13. I only had to tell her when I wanted to and she would be in the same room or end of the house. Close by if I needed her.

What Amanda's parents probably didn't know was the kind of chats they had. And that's where the fail happened. But it's a fail that is mostly a learning tool for the kid. Not a weapon that would lead to their distruction.

[Panacea]

They found one of the jerks who tormented her after death.[/URL]

Like most skilled trolls, he's pulling the "you're the real bullies" card, even though he's the one who starting the thing by trolling.

Amazing how some people think they should be able to do what ever they want with no consequences. Technically, he may not have violated TOS. That doesn't make what he did right, and it certainly wasn't funny. This is a guy who needs to learn some boundaries.

I've scanned this thread and don't think this particular item has been posted -- I apologize if it has -- it just showed up today on Yahoo! news. What do you think, did Christine Claveau do the right thing? Was the man's employer right or wrong? Should a person's online activities have this long of a reach?

Tough call. I'm actually leaning with Jester on this. Being a dick on personal time shouldn't get you fired. And Ms. Claveau certainly seems to relish the fact this guy got fired; she is looking for more dicks to get into trouble with their bosses making her a vigilante.

OTOH, social proscription seems to be the only remedy for this kind of bad behavior. The cops can't stop it. The ISPs can't stop it. So what else can we do to enforce social standards of behavior? I honestly don't know.

But I don't blame the employer for the action they took. They do have a right to decide who they want representing them. There are consequences for what we say and do, and we should expect that our employers may take a dim view of our activities if they are socially unacceptable. If I were outed doing something like that, I have no doubt that my CC would fire me.

Not just girls.

Sure, most of the creeps go after girls, but they go after boys, too.

^-.-^

Ugh. That's just plain disgusting. I hope they lock this guy up and throw away the key.

<snip>
We are talking about teenagers here, people. I can't say how much or how little Amanda's parents were involved in her life, but to say that if they had been more involved this would not have happened is to ignore the basic truth of teenagers: they want to do things on their own, their parents be damned.

I completely agree. My parents still don't know my brother smoked pot in college, or that on a couple of occasions I drove after drinking (yes, incredibly asshattedly stupid on my part).

But more importantly, there was a lot of childhood bullying that my parents never knew anything about. It got to a point where it didn't seem like they could do anything to stop it, so I stopped complaining about it and suffered in silence until I finally snapped and started fighting back (I mean that quite literally).

My parents were shocked one day when I came home from a bike ride covered in blood (it didn't help I was wearing white jeans). I'd gotten into a fight when one of the neighborhood bullies tried to push me out of my own neighborhood, when the only thing I'd been doing was watching a kickball game (not playing; the jeans were brand new). I fought back and got my ass handed to me. My folks thought the bullying had stopped. It hadn't (it didn't stop until an incident three years later).

I have a feeling they knew she was using the webcam to meet new people. My own Mom let me go into a 13-18 chat room when I was 13. I only had to tell her when I wanted to and she would be in the same room or end of the house. Close by if I needed her.

What Amanda's parents probably didn't know was the kind of chats they had. And that's where the fail happened. But it's a fail that is mostly a learning tool for the kid. Not a weapon that would lead to their distruction.

The bullying I endured as a child was so bad, I begged my father to move us somewhere else, anywhere else, so I could start over at another school. In the summers, my folks would send me to summer camp for several weeks, and I had no problem making friends there so I knew the problem was not me. I thought a fresh start would work.

If the Internet and web cams, and chat rooms had existed then I would have used them. Anything to meet new people and potentially make friends (I had none who lived in my neighborhood), though odds are I would have ended up just like Amanda Todd.

Unbeknownst to my niece, my sister monitors her chats and where she goes on the internet. It's all captured in a log on my sister's computer that she reviews so she can see what her daughter is up to. She can see when her daughter is on her computer, and what she is doing and the niece doesn't even know Mom is doing it.

[AdminAssistant]

Unbeknownst to my niece, my sister monitors her chats and where she goes on the internet. It's all captured in a log on my sister's computer that she reviews so she can see what her daughter is up to. She can see when her daughter is on her computer, and what she is doing and the niece doesn't even know Mom is doing it.

A perfect example of responsible parenting. I'm comforted by the fact that my husband is fairly tech savvy, and has many friends who are in IT or programming, so that when we have kids, we'll be able to do the same. Why parents don't learn to use the technology that their kids are using is beyond me.

[Andara Bledin]

A perfect example of responsible parenting. I'm comforted by the fact that my husband is fairly tech savvy, and has many friends who are in IT or programming, so that when we have kids, we'll be able to do the same. Why parents don't learn to use the technology that their kids are using is beyond me.

This.

It's a fairly trivial thing to log what goes on with any computer attached to the network, so why more parents don't keep logs of their kids' activities, I just don't get.

^-.-^

[Lace Neil Singer]

I read that Amanda was twelve when she first went on Facebook, so she shouldn't have had a webcam or account; the bullying went on for three years before its terrible conclusion.

This incident really highlights the need for parents to monitor their kids on the net and, more importantly, for kids to be more aware about what they put on the net. It's not victim blaming to suggest that girls need to be told, emphatically and repeatedly, that it is never a good idea to sext or otherwise record yourself nude, never a good idea to expose your breasts to strangers, and always a good idea to report creepers.

This, so much. There are parental controls that can be put on computers, and the computer should never be allowed in a teenager's room, but always in the living room, for example. While a parent can hardly be expected to know everything a teenager does (for example, I took up smoking as a thirteen year old and my parents are still unaware that I was smoking and drinking alcohol as a teen), logging their online activities isn't an unreasonable request and would help to protect vulnerable children online from creeps.

[Duelist925]

Whilst I'm normally against such monitoring measures...from a parental viewpoint, yeah. I can't honestly say I wouldn't do the same when I have kids.

[XCashier]

What sickens me is one of the commenters was from a teacher who said that bullying will always happen and that we shouldn't expect the teachers to be able to stop it.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." The good people of the world need to step up and stop the bullying, and teachers, who see the kids nearly every day, are in the best position to do that. It should not be entirely on their shoulders, I agree; parents, pediatricians, other people who work with kids should also do their part. But it has to start somewhere.

Gee I heard a variation of that growing up...

If aethian was more normal she wouldn't get picked on.
If aethian dressed more like the other kids she wouldn't have a problem.
If aethian didn't read at such a higher level she would get called those names.
If aethian would loose weight and look more normal they wouldn't say that.
If aethian learned to ignore them they would stop.
If aethian....

I heard that bullshit too. They didn't like my clothes, they didn't like my lack of money, they didn't like my glasses, they didn't like me being in the gifted class, the list went on and on. Assholes will always find a reason to pick on someone.

"If aethian didn't read at such a higher level she would get called those names." What's wrong with reading at a higher level? Why should someone have to wallow in the lowest common denominator when they're capable of so much more?! We are human beings, not bees or ants; we are individuals, not part of a hive mind. People who think like that scare the hell out of me, it's something straight out of Harrison Bergeron.