Cyber Bullying Must End.

[Jester]

"If aethian didn't read at such a higher level she would get called those names." What's wrong with reading at a higher level? Why should someone have to wallow in the lowest common denominator when they're capable of so much more?!

I'd like to point out that not all of the assholes in school are dumb, or insist that the smart ones be dumb. Smart kids can be assholes, too.

While this is not an example of bullying, it IS an example of a smart kid being an asshole. (And I'm sorry, but there are certain parts of this story that make it seem like I'm bragging. I'm not, but I have to tell those parts to tell the story.)

In my second high school, when we got our PSAT scores back, it turns out that one person in our grade had become the first student ever at that school to score a perfect 800 score on the verbal part of the test, along with a respectable 710 in math, for an impressive 1510 out of 1600 possible. That created quite a stir among both teachers and students. And that student was me.

I didn't brag, and I certainly hadn't expected to do that well; my only real goal was to do well and perhaps beat my older sister's score.

Well, while most people were really cool about it, a few of my classmates were kind of pricks, including this one kid who was in my English class and on the cross country team with me. One day, during cross country practice, said kid (we'll call him Ed, since I can't for the life of me remember his name) told me in no uncertain terms that he was going to kick my ass on the upcoming SATs. My basic attitude was, "Whatever, dude." Hey, you do what you need to do, and good luck. While I wasn't necessarily gunning to be the best in the class, I wouldn't mind beating this guy, though for me it wasn't a goal. For him it clearly was. To the point where he went out of his way to let everyone know that he had spent the extra money to get a rush on the test results, etc., etc.

Well, I can't tell you what his score was, since he never said. Apparently he got his results back, and they weren't what he had hoped for.

Myself, I did not have the highest score in the class this time; I had the third highest, coming in just under a pair of Asian-American brothers. (I still kicked ass, though, with a combined score of 1420: math went up to 740, verbal dropped to 680.)

Yeah, Ed didn't say much about that.

But just an example of how even the smart kids can be douchewaffles.

Again, sorry if any of that story seemed like bragging. I didn't intend for it to be.

[Panacea]

I read that Amanda was twelve when she first went on Facebook, so she shouldn't have had a webcam or account; the bullying went on for three years before its terrible conclusion.

My niece is not allowed to have a Facebook account, and she's fourteen. I think her parents are very sensible. Of course, Niece is sensible as well and is much more interested in the kid only sites she IS allowed on, and where she is easily able to write her short stories to share with her fans.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." The good people of the world need to step up and stop the bullying, and teachers, who see the kids nearly every day, are in the best position to do that. It should not be entirely on their shoulders, I agree; parents, pediatricians, other people who work with kids should also do their part. But it has to start somewhere.

Agreed. A lot of the bullying I had to deal with happened because the other kids weren't willing to take a risk of being "uncool" and stopping it. Even my own brother refused to back me up when I got cornered by a neighborhood bully in the park, and told me I'd get picked on less if I would just be more "normal." Whatever that means.

"If aethian didn't read at such a higher level she would get called those names." What's wrong with reading at a higher level? Why should someone have to wallow in the lowest common denominator when they're capable of so much more?!

Because then you are part of the herd and you don't stand out. I read at the college level by the time I was 10, and read novels written for adults by 12, including the Lord of the Rings (not an easy read for most kids that age). Books were my escape from the bullies. They would take my books, and damage or hide them, but even if I didn't get them back I could always get new ones and find another escape.

I had plans for my life by age 13, and followed them. I think it always surprised people that I actually had plans, plans that included getting out of the county I grew up in.

I'd like to point out that not all of the assholes in school are dumb, or insist that the smart ones be dumb. Smart kids can be assholes, too.

Well, that's certainly true. Most of my bullies were not dumb people by any means. They got good grades and went on to college.

Ed probably thought you weren't in the smart category and felt threatened by your unexpected performance. Hard to say what sets these guys off.

But I don't think academic achievement is anything to sneer at; my response then and now to your PSAT scores is, "Great job, dude!"

My verbal scores on the PSAT were fairly high though I can't remember what they were. But math was dismal, and I decided not to take the full SATs because I knew I would not do well on the math, and I didn't need them to go to nursing school at the community college anyway.

[Aethian]

When I was in forth grade we had an assignment to do a book report on any book with over 600 pages. We were given two months to read and write the different drafts of the report. The book I chose was over the African slave buying and trading by the coming ships. In short a college level book.

It had parts that a forth grader should have been censored from but Mom let me know I was to come to her for questions. I made the mistake of asking one of those questions in class because the teacher said we should discuss our books. You would have thought that I declared myself the reincarnation if every thought of evil person out there. CPS was called, parents were called, I was sent to speak to a psychologist.

CPS warmed Mom against allowing me to know such things. That I should never know such things because I was only a country girl who most likely would be a farmers wife. Should have heard my Mom...hell the whole school could hear my Mom. The psychologist wanted to recommend me for a gifted program but there wasn't the money available to get me enrolled. He congratulated Mom, in front if CPS, in what a wonder job she had done in broadening my view of life. Pissed CPS and the school right off.

The next day when the teachers went absent I found out what it felt like to get kicked in my sides from two different people, feel a tuft of hair be yanked out, and know what shoe leather tasted like.

I got sent home because when I tried to fight back and pushed a kid over they got dirty and so I must have started it. It didn't mater that I was bruised, bleeding, dirty, and in torn clothes.

Since then I was harrased if I made anything over 80% so I made sure I didn't. I forced myself to be dumb and stay that way in the middle of grades because it was easier at school. Killed my future really.

[Panacea]

CPS warmed Mom against allowing me to know such things. That I should never know such things because I was only a country girl who most likely would be a farmers wife.

More likely they wanted you to grow up being a good little white supremacist who would keep "those people" in their place, and not have any sympathy for them.

(and lest anyone call me a reverse racist, let me add that I am white)

Since then I was harrased if I made anything over 80% so I made sure I didn't. I forced myself to be dumb and stay that way in the middle of grades because it was easier at school. Killed my future really.

That's a real shame. Think of how many bright kids are discouraged from having a future, just to "fit in." Considering how many jobs are going unfilled because we aren't producing people with the right education to do them, it's really hurting the national interest to allow bullying to continue.

[XCashier]

That's a real shame. Think of how many bright kids are discouraged from having a future, just to "fit in."

It is an absolute shame. How many girls could've been the next Marie Curie or Golda Meir but for being cajoled, coerced, pressured and bullied into hiding their intellects and skills for fear that the boys won't like them? How many black kids have had to hide their intellects and skills because their peers mock them for "acting white"? How many gay kids have to deny themselves and live a lie for fear of bullying, assault, even murder?

What benefit comes from producing cookie-cutter kids? How can we ever advance if we browbeat and bully the intellects, the artists and the freethinkers into being just like everyone else?

[Jester]

Ed probably thought you weren't in the smart category and felt threatened by your unexpected performance. Hard to say what sets these guys off.

Agreed. Hell, before the scores came out, I don't know if he even knew who I was, even though we had Honors English class and cross country together.
And I base this on what happened when the scores came out. I'll shorten the story significantly, but I was informed before I got to my English class, and in my English class, my teacher pulled me aside and asked if I would mind if he announced it to the class. He was beaming with pride, and I didn't want to deny him this, plus I really didn't care. So when the class got settled in, he said he had an announcement: a student in that high school was the first student in the history of the high school to get a perfect verbal...and that student was in that class.

I should point out that this was Honors English, and that almost all the kids in the class were preppy, cliquey types...except for me and this guy Mike, both of whom were more considered rocker types, i.e., not in with the cool snotty kids. Anyway, when the teacher made that announcement, all the students started looking around, trying to figure out who it was, but ignoring me and Mike, since it clearly wasn't either of us. Well, almost all the students. I didn't look around, because I of course knew who it was, and Mike didn't look around, because frankly he didn't give a shit.

After a few moments, the teacher said, "And that student is Jester!" To which probably more than half the class had looks of "WHO?" and those who did know who I was had looks of "SAY WHAT?" Mike just half-smiled, because he kind of figured this would piss off the cliquey kids.

Mike was right. Ed was not the only one that gave me shit and told me they were going to beat my scores next time. Ed was just the most obnoxious about it, repeating it ad nauseum, until I basically tuned him out like the white noise he was.

As for all the others that boasted how they were going to do, not one of them beat me. The two brothers who beat me really didn't give a shit about my scores, they were only trying to do the best they could, which they did. Cool guys, what little I knew about them.

What benefit comes from producing cookie-cutter kids? How can we ever advance if we browbeat and bully the intellects, the artists and the freethinkers into being just like everyone else?

They tried that in Germany a few decades ago. It didn't work out too well for them, as I recall.

[Nekojin]

Forgive me for not having read all of the thread, but I have a few thoughts on this matter.

First, I don't hold "cyber-bullying" to the same level as real bullying. As someone who was bullied throughout most of high school (and I've got quite a few tales from that of the school administrations effectively doing nothing, or treating me the same as the people bullying me), I've got very strong opinions about bullying, but I dealt with some of what you'd call "cyber-bullying" these days on the BBS'es that I frequented. I had people sending me harrassing notes. I had people going out of their way to kill me in gaming. And for all of that, I knew that if they were starting to get to me, all I had to do was unplug. Go to a different BBS/website, or even use the tools that the sites I visited have to block the harrassers.

There's a world of difference between someone beating my head on the playground concrete, or raining punches on my sides and back while I try to "turtle" and keep them from hitting my face; and someone saying nasty things about me, or to me, on a web site.

That said, I'm not blaming the victim. Sure, they can do things to avoid the bullies, but why should they have to? The bullies are deliberately and willfully causing pain to another person. That shouldn't be tolerated in any context. People going around blocks on a web site (Facebook's Block/Ignore function, for example) to continue to harrass someone should, at a minimum, lose their access to the site for a while.

Back to the "why should they" for a moment. Ultimately, in life, we cannot control other people, we can only control ourselves. If someone else is putting you in a bad situation, and you're not getting help from third parties, it's in your best interest to find a way to remove yourself from the situation. Don't expect others to do it for you - some can't, some won't, and some are actually watching with glee. The world won't be made better for you by other people - you ultimately have to do it yourself.

[fireheart17]

First, I don't hold "cyber-bullying" to the same level as real bullying. As someone who was bullied throughout most of high school (and I've got quite a few tales from that of the school administrations effectively doing nothing, or treating me the same as the people bullying me), I've got very strong opinions about bullying, but I dealt with some of what you'd call "cyber-bullying" these days on the BBS'es that I frequented. I had people sending me harrassing notes. I had people going out of their way to kill me in gaming. And for all of that, I knew that if they were starting to get to me, all I had to do was unplug. Go to a different BBS/website, or even use the tools that the sites I visited have to block the harrassers.

Unfortunately for some people, they either can't leave the website in question (i.e. web business/blog), don't want to leave the website in question (maybe it holds some form of importance i.e. the only way to contact a friend) or feel like they shouldn't have to leave a website. That's what makes cyber bullying so devastating.

There's a world of difference between someone beating my head on the playground concrete, or raining punches on my sides and back while I try to "turtle" and keep them from hitting my face; and someone saying nasty things about me, or to me, on a web site.

While I do agree that physical bullying vs. cyber-bullying are two different things, they also have very different and devastating effects.
Unless the bully catches your bus, lives on the same street as you or attends whatever after-hours activity that you attend, they usually can't follow you once the school day ends (or unless you live in a small town).
Cyber-bullying on the other hand, can come at any time. It can have deeper psychological effects on the person because they don't have any safe place to go to. Even if you shut off access to one website, they can still find a way around it. If you combine it with text/MMS messages, spreading of photos of that person (gained from Facebook or otherwise)

That said, I'm not blaming the victim. Sure, they can do things to avoid the bullies, but why should they have to? The bullies are deliberately and willfully causing pain to another person. That shouldn't be tolerated in any context. People going around blocks on a web site (Facebook's Block/Ignore function, for example) to continue to harrass someone should, at a minimum, lose their access to the site for a while.

Thank god for that.

Back to the "why should they" for a moment. Ultimately, in life, we cannot control other people, we can only control ourselves. If someone else is putting you in a bad situation, and you're not getting help from third parties, it's in your best interest to find a way to remove yourself from the situation. Don't expect others to do it for you - some can't, some won't, and some are actually watching with glee. The world won't be made better for you by other people - you ultimately have to do it yourself.

Depending on the type of bullying, some bullies can turn it against the victim, which creates more hell for them. If the victim finally fights back, they are usually the ones in trouble. I've been there, done that a few times, although admittedly on one occasion, the bully also got suspended (much to my glee and relief). If the victim tries to fight back and they are the ones in trouble, then they end up feeling powerless and the bully doesn't have to stop tormenting them, since they're now viewed as the "victim" in the eyes of the adults.

A few schools near me have been using a program of bully "auditing". About 2-3 times a term (10-11 weeks depending on state), students are evaluated on how safe the school is and if they want to, they can "out" potential bullies without fear of retaliation. The bullies are brought in and interviewed (with an unbiased view to avoid situations like I mentioned above) and then if needed, they are provided with counselling or put through programs to change their behaviour. From what I've heard, bullying has dropped in those schools.

[XCashier]

A few schools near me have been using a program of bully "auditing". About 2-3 times a term (10-11 weeks depending on state), students are evaluated on how safe the school is and if they want to, they can "out" potential bullies without fear of retaliation. The bullies are brought in and interviewed (with an unbiased view to avoid situations like I mentioned above) and then if needed, they are provided with counselling or put through programs to change their behaviour. From what I've heard, bullying has dropped in those schools.

That's really good. Sounds like someone has finally figured out something that works. Let's hope it keeps working.

[Sarah Valentine]

CPS warned Mom against allowing me to know such things. That I should never know such things because I was only a country girl who most likely would be a farmers wife. Should have heard my Mom...hell the whole school could hear my Mom. The psychologist wanted to recommend me for a gifted program but there wasn't the money available to get me enrolled. He congratulated Mom, in front if CPS, in what a wonder job she had done in broadening my view of life. Pissed CPS and the school right off.

The next day when the teachers went absent I found out what it felt like to get kicked in my sides from two different people, feel a tuft of hair be yanked out, and know what shoe leather tasted like.

I got sent home because when I tried to fight back and pushed a kid over they got dirty and so I must have started it. It didn't mater that I was bruised, bleeding, dirty, and in torn clothes.

Since then I was harrased if I made anything over 80% so I made sure I didn't. I forced myself to be dumb and stay that way in the middle of grades because it was easier at school. Killed my future really.

This is upsetting to me, I hope it wasn't what it sounds like because if it is then it's fucked up. The schools really hate it when you prove them wrong or make the teachers look stupid, even if it's for a minute. However they have an obligation to protect the children they teach, NOT letting them get th shit beat out of them by asshole bullies.

[Panacea]

Forgive me for not having read all of the thread, but I have a few thoughts on this matter.

First, I don't hold "cyber-bullying" to the same level as real bullying. As someone who was bullied throughout most of high school (and I've got quite a few tales from that of the school administrations effectively doing nothing, or treating me the same as the people bullying me), I've got very strong opinions about bullying, but I dealt with some of what you'd call "cyber-bullying" these days on the BBS'es that I frequented. I had people sending me harrassing notes. I had people going out of their way to kill me in gaming. And for all of that, I knew that if they were starting to get to me, all I had to do was unplug. Go to a different BBS/website, or even use the tools that the sites I visited have to block the harrassers.

There's a world of difference between someone beating my head on the playground concrete, or raining punches on my sides and back while I try to "turtle" and keep them from hitting my face; and someone saying nasty things about me, or to me, on a web site.

Back to the "why should they" for a moment. Ultimately, in life, we cannot control other people, we can only control ourselves. If someone else is putting you in a bad situation, and you're not getting help from third parties, it's in your best interest to find a way to remove yourself from the situation. Don't expect others to do it for you - some can't, some won't, and some are actually watching with glee. The world won't be made better for you by other people - you ultimately have to do it yourself.

I have to respectfully disagree. Bullying is about fear and control. Bullies gain power over their victims. The rise of the internet has risen to a non-physical, but no less violent form of bullying: internet harassment. The victims literally cannot escape their pursuers. They are there every time they get online, even at home. Even if they move, the bully can find them and continue the campaign of terror. They can't remove themselves from the situation, because the situation follows them where every they go.

And sometimes this can escalate into physical confrontations. Worse yet, these kids are being driven to kill themselves. So I do not see cyber bullying as a lesser offense, or a victimless crime. I see it for what it is: stalking. You have a predator, and you have prey.

There is no difference.

[Jester]

I see both points of view. I understand why some people think physical bullying is worse, and also why others feel that cyber bullying is worse. Each has its components of terror.

And we can argue all day over who is right.

But it doesn't matter. Both forms of bullying are abhorrent, both are about power, and both are driving young people to kill themselves. And so steps must be taken to protect the victims and prevent bullying.

Can we actually "end" bullying? No, just as we cannot "end" poverty, hunger, or crime. They will always be with us. But we can take steps towards reducing bullying, to making it so that bullies can and will face punishment, to changing the view of "kids will be kids" into "this shit needs to stop."

Because, honestly, this shit needs to stop. As much as we can, as adults we need to reign in those kids who terrorize other kids, and either make them realize their behavior is unacceptable, or punish those who don't get it and don't stop.

Deter and redirect those we can, punish those we can't. Just like any other crime. Because if we don't, more children will die. Some will take their own lives, some will have theirs taken by others. And that is hardly the mark of a civilized society, which we claim to be.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

My niece is not allowed to have a Facebook account, and she's fourteen. I think her parents are very sensible. Of course, Niece is sensible as well and is much more interested in the kid only sites she IS allowed on, and where she is easily able to write her short stories to share with her fans.

Except that's no guarantee of a child's safety from cyber bullying. There have been instances where a child has been driven to suicidal thoughts (and a few actually tried) because of what was said about them behind their "Cyber-backs".

That while they themselves had no internet presence, one was created for them. It's very easy to take a cell phone photo of someone, create a Facebook Profile, and use that profile to act as if one were that person.

Too damn easy in fact.

Further to that is even if they don't go to that level, all it takes is for someone to say on their social media sites (Facebook, Twitter, etc) that "Sally Goodgirl is a total slut who gives out blow jobs for five bucks a shot" and she'll face all the people laughing at her, some might show her what is being said online, people shoving a fiver in her face and demanding head...

And as has been said, this shit can follow them from school to school and from state to state thanks to the all-encompassing arms of the World Wide Web.

"What? Sally moved from Maryland to California? That whore! She's not getting away from me that easy! Let's see, who on Facebook goes to her new school."

And it starts all over again.

The problem is that this problem is not new. Bullying has been going on for years. It's just that kids today have more power to bully and thanks to zero-tolerance laws in schools inversely less power to do a god damned thing to stop it.

Personally I think they need to start bringing these kids up on criminal charges. And in the cases where bullying has led to the loss of life they need to be brought up on manslaughter charges. They may not have intended to kill anyone, but their actions led to the death of another person.

[Lace Neil Singer]

My view on suicide has been stated many a time, so I won't repeat it here. I will say this; a lot more kids seem to be taking the choice of a permanent solution to a temporary problem than back in my day. Is that true, or is it just that we hear about this happening more often?

Back when I was bullied, I had days when I just wished I'd die. I never once went thru with it, cuz I didn't want to cause my family pain. In short, I put my family's feelings above my own wishes, cuz I thought that they were more important than I was. My thought was that since I was worthless and not worthy of consideration, I had no right to put my wishes ahead of theirs.

Also, I had my self harm to help me get over suicidal thoughts. Yes, I actually felt that my self harm was helping me cope, rather than being something which was horrible and that I should stop. I won't even say now that I've stopped as if I'm upset or angry, I still get the urge to reach for the scissors or the knife and have to work hard not to.

One thing that saddens me is this. My bullying took place, what, over twenty years ago? You'd think that there'd be progress, that schools would be taking more notice of the damage that bullies can do. But they're not, and bullying STILL goes on, just as viciously as it did before.

There's a world of difference between someone beating my head on the playground concrete, or raining punches on my sides and back while I try to "turtle" and keep them from hitting my face; and someone saying nasty things about me, or to me, on a web site.

Yes; bruises heal, but the pain caused by words lasts a lot longer. Most of my bullying was verbal abuse, with instances of minor physical bullying (pinching, tripping me up, pulling my hair, pushing me) that didn't bother me nearly as much as the taunts, name calling, the notes left in my desk telling me to kill myself and do the world a favour, the constant drip drip of poison that stayed with me even when I was at home and alone in my room and which made me reach for the sharp scissors I kept in my drawer and cut my arms. I don't see any difference between bullies leaving notes in a victim's desk and leaving notes on their Facebook wall; it still hurts.

[AdminAssistant]

My view on suicide has been stated many a time, so I won't repeat it here. I will say this; a lot more kids seem to be taking the choice of a permanent solution to a temporary problem than back in my day. Is that true, or is it just that we hear about this happening more often?

I don't have stats, but my feeling (whatever that's worth) is that it's probably a little of both. One of my sister's friends killed himself when he was in Jr. High because of bullying, and this was back in 1992-ish. Never even made the local paper.