Judge To Decide If Woman Should Be Forced To Have An Abortion

[crashhelmet]

A 32 year old Nevada woman with both mental and physical disabilities has become pregnant. The Nevada Supreme Court ruled that a District Court judge can decide whether or not she keeps the baby or is forced to have an abortion. The mother, while only having the mental capacity of a 6 year old, doesn't know what she wants to do. Her adoptive parents & legal guardians want to keep the baby.

A few links...
Judge can hold hearing to decide if mentally disabled woman should have abortion
Nevada judge seeks go-ahead in abortion case
Abortion For Disabled Woman? Judge to Decide

From what I've read and heard, there are conflicting issues here. Some medical examiners have said that everything is fine and there is no risk to the baby. Others have said that the medication the mother is on for her disabilities is a risk.

It's unknown if she was raped assaulted or not. One report mentioned that she would wander down to a nearby truck stop and have sex with people. Regardless if it was there or with someone in the home she lives in, can she give adequate consent with her mental capacity?

What does a case like this mean for the abortion debate? What does it mean for the rights of the disabled? What does this do for the growing Eugenics debate?

[gremcint]

If she's not mentally an adult then she was raped.

As for the baby it's hard to call honestly. If there is someone capable and willing to care for the child properly then she should be allowed to decide possibly with someone advising her. This is a situation though where there's a couple ways to go

[s_stabeler]

while I agree it is functionally rape ,i will point out that the age of consent isn't flexible. So it can't be statutory rape.

As for the argument, it's not actually particularly complicated. forced abortions should never be done, period. That has never lead to anything good, ( it typically has led to eugenics) and has led to a lot of bad.

[telecom_goddess]

I'm inclined to say it's rape myself, she is not capable of giving consent and no consent = rape. As for the abortion I don't think that should be forced on her. Again she can't give consent really, and if there are people willing to care for the baby why not let it be born?

[BlaqueKatt]

Her adoptive parents & legal guardians want to keep the baby.

Only because of their religious beliefs, one of the linked articles actually says they are aware of the medical risks to their daughter but continuing the pregnancy is more important, no matter what the health risks to the mother or child. The judge is the only one looking out for this poor woman.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I'm inclined to say it's rape myself, she is not capable of giving consent and no consent = rape. As for the abortion I don't think that should be forced on her. Again she can't give consent really, and if there are people willing to care for the baby why not let it be born?

Childbirth would be just as risky to be forced on her.

[Panacea]

Only because of their religious beliefs, one of the linked articles actually says they are aware of the medical risks to their daughter but continuing the pregnancy is more important, no matter what the health risks to the mother or child. The judge is the only one looking out for this poor woman.

Not necessarily. The parents are being consistent with their beliefs: that life is sacred. That doesn't mean they aren't concerned about the risks.

The woman has epilepsy. Lots of women with epilepsy get pregnant and have children. It all depends on what anti-seizure medications she is on. Some of these medications have the risk of neural tube defects such as anacephaly (Depakote) and spina bifida (Tegretrol), the latter of which is treatable in utero by surgery. Dilantin has risks of cleft lip/palate (correctable) and mental retardation (not).

But there are other options available: Klonopin and Neurontin being two. Magnesium sulfate is another.

Of course, the seizures themselves could create fetal bradycardia.

The point is, the issue could be managed. If the parents are aware of the risks vs benefits, they should be allowed to make the decision. There is no evidence they are ignoring medical advice, and these same choices are faced by epileptic women who get pregnant every day. The real issue is the woman herself is not capable of making that decision, and so it is left to a third party.

Suppose you have a mentally competent woman who is Catholic, shares similar beliefs, is epileptic, and gets pregnant. Are we going to force her to have an abortion to protect her life and avoid fetal abnormalities because the doctors somehow know better than the patient? I don't think so.

Childbirth would be just as risky to be forced on her.

The biggest risk to labor would not be the labor itself, but the risk of a seizure during labor, which could produce fetal bradycardia and result in hypoxia. Most likely this baby would be delivered by C section. Of course, surgery has risks, but they are well known and easily managed; serious complications are rare.

I think the judge should honor the adoptive parents wishes.

[Andara Bledin]

If the parents are aware of the risks vs benefits, they should be allowed to make the decision.

If these are the same people who allowed a woman with the mental capacity of a 6-year old to go out and get herself knocked up, I'm not sure they really should be allowed to make such life-affecting decisions for her.

^-.-^

[Duelist925]

If these are the same people who allowed a woman with the mental capacity of a 6-year old to go out and get herself knocked up, I'm not sure they really should be allowed to make such life-affecting decisions for her.

^-.-^

Pretty much this. Her primary guardians should be able to...you know...guard her.

overall, I would normally say that, unless they were ignoring serious medical issues that don't affect women with a normal mental development, yes their wishes should be honored, but in this case...not so much.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Um, childbirth isn't super safe, even for a healthy woman. Even in modern times, it still carries a risk of mother, child or both dying during the process, despite what most pro-lifers think. They say that abortion is risky, but act as tho childbirth isn't. Even a caesarian carries risks; it's basically major surgery.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Caesare...ges/Risks.aspx

Personally, the thought of a mentally disabled woman, who is basically like a child, having to go thru pregnancy and birth when she doesn't understand what's happening to her, horrifies me.

[crashhelmet]

Pretty much this. Her primary guardians should be able to...you know...guard her.

overall, I would normally say that, unless they were ignoring serious medical issues that don't affect women with a normal mental development, yes their wishes should be honored, but in this case...not so much.

She was living in a group home. Her adoptive parents had no control on where she went or what she did. Blame the employees at the home. Not the parents.

[violiav]

Huh, I think this was on Law and Order a couple years ago.

[Panacea]

If these are the same people who allowed a woman with the mental capacity of a 6-year old to go out and get herself knocked up, I'm not sure they really should be allowed to make such life-affecting decisions for her.

^-.-^

The girl lives in a group home. Physically she's a healthy adult, with adult urges and needs. Unless you slap a chastity belt on her, you're not going to stop her or others like her from having sex. Unless the group home environment is demonstrably unsafe (as in, employees sleeping on the job, condoning sexual activity, or something similar, not simply being unaware) it's pointless to blame either the parents or the group home.

Um, childbirth isn't super safe, even for a healthy woman. Even in modern times, it still carries a risk of mother, child or both dying during the process, despite what most pro-lifers think. They say that abortion is risky, but act as tho childbirth isn't. Even a caesarian carries risks; it's basically major surgery.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Caesare...ges/Risks.aspx

Personally, the thought of a mentally disabled woman, who is basically like a child, having to go thru pregnancy and birth when she doesn't understand what's happening to her, horrifies me.

It probably will be a frightening experience for her. But so would a forced abortion be, and she would know she is no longer pregnant. It is highly likely she will grieve the loss of the child. You can't protect her from the consequences of getting pregnant no matter what you do; at best, you can only minimize them.

Death in childbirth is not that common anymore. We have a strong, sound base of medical research on how to labor a woman safely in spite of complications. Even C Sections are routine and safe. Normally, I think they're overdone (I don't think elective c sections to predtermine the date of birth is a good idea because of those risks), but if you have a high risk pregnancy, then often doing a section is safer than proceeding with labor.

Huh, I think this was on Law and Order a couple years ago.

L&O has done a couple of episodes on similar issues: the one where the parents of a brain dead woman hired a nursing home worker to impregnate their daughter (who later died from complications of childbirth), and the one about the teenaged girl with Down's who was tricked into having sex by boys in the high school she was mainstreamed into.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

L&O has done a couple of episodes on similar issues: the one where the parents of a brain dead woman hired a nursing home worker to impregnate their daughter (who later died from complications of childbirth), and the one about the teenaged girl with Down's who was tricked into having sex by boys in the high school she was mainstreamed into.

There was another one, though I forget what the disability was, where she was in a school to help people like her become as self-reliant as they can possibly be. She worked in a store that works with the program and the manager there told her they were "exercising."

She got pregnant. Things went nuts. All that kind of good stuff that L&O is known for.

[Andara Bledin]

Unless the group home environment is demonstrably unsafe (as in, employees sleeping on the job, condoning sexual activity, or something similar, not simply being unaware) it's pointless to blame either the parents or the group home.

They allowed a person with the mental development of a 6-year-old to wander away from the home; at the very least, the facility has some culpability in that. However, as the parents had trusted the home to actually watch over her, they shouldn't necessarily lose their say in the matter.

I do find it telling that the parents have declared that the woman wants to have the child, but an independent investigation determined that the woman doesn't actually know whether or not she wants to have it.

However, I really don't think someone that lacking in development is mentally capable of making such a major decision.

One of the things I find most objectionable in the "don't terminate" crowd is that many people talk about "her right to have the baby" without any consideration for the fact that she won't actually be allowed to keep the baby, but merely be a substitute uterus for whoever ends up adopting it.

^-.-^