Judge To Decide If Woman Should Be Forced To Have An Abortion

[HYHYBT]

Why the assumption a few posts back that she cannot understand what's happening? A six year old may well not grasp all the details that a normal adult would, but they're quite capable of taking in the basic premise of pregnancy, including the practical. What aspects, precisely, that she needs to know are beyond explaining on a first grade level?

[Panacea]

I do find it telling that the parents have declared that the woman wants to have the child, but an independent investigation determined that the woman doesn't actually know whether or not she wants to have it.

However, I really don't think someone that lacking in development is mentally capable of making such a major decision.

One of the things I find most objectionable in the "don't terminate" crowd is that many people talk about "her right to have the baby" without any consideration for the fact that she won't actually be allowed to keep the baby, but merely be a substitute uterus for whoever ends up adopting it.

The pregnant girl isn't going to make the decision. And she may have some idea of what she wants. Knowing that can be hard; her answers are probably phrased to please whomever she is talking to. If the investigators used leading questions (all to common, unfortunately), then she may have given the answer she thought they wanted to hear rather than what she really felt. Naturally, this could have happened with the parents as well.

I have to believe the parents plan to keep the baby.

[Andara Bledin]

I have to believe the parents plan to keep the baby.

Considering that most of the articles I've seen make mention of a half dozen families that want to adopt the baby, I sincerely doubt the woman's adoptive parents have any interest in caring for the woman's child.

^-.-^

[Panacea]

Considering that most of the articles I've seen make mention of a half dozen families that want to adopt the baby, I sincerely doubt the woman's adoptive parents have any interest in caring for the woman's child.

^-.-^

But have the articles said specifically the baby will be put up for adoption?

[Andara Bledin]

From this article at LifeSiteNews:

For the Catholic Bauer family, abortion was not an option, but they also knew Elizabeth would not be able to care for a baby herself. They reached out to their community and quickly lined up at least six families willing to adopt the infant, even if the child has special needs.

That tells me that not only do they know the woman cannot care for the child but that they don't intend to, either. People didn't spontaneously offer; they reached out to find people who would do it.

^-.-^

[siead_lietrathua]

i admit, my biggest concern would be her ability to handle the pregnancy and the postpartum issues. many women can't handle it, let alone with the mentality of a child. those hormones are gonna wreck hell on her brain not to mention the panic during labour, unless they giver her a cesarean. either way, the girl is in for a world of pain and confusion. i hope if they have her go through with the pregnancy they give her appropriate medical care for her mental health as well as her physical.
i'm kinda suprised they didn't have her on BCP. my grandma worked in a group home in florida, and the girls with sexual tendencies were all offered the choice of BCP in with their daily meds to avoid accidental pregnancy.

[Panacea]

That tells me that not only do they know the woman cannot care for the child but that they don't intend to, either. People didn't spontaneously offer; they reached out to find people who would do it.

It's not what I would have done. But this is a situation where I prefer not to judge. I think the parents are within their legal rights, and that the pregnant girl will suffer from trauma regardless of what happens. The best one can do is minimize the damage. Approached in a positive light, this could be a good experience for her. I'm not convinced that a pregnancy and labor will automatically result in harm.

Forcing a medical procedure that results in terminating the pregnancy is more likely to result in emotional harm; it will be like a miscarriage on steroids for her. I've talked to a lot of women who've had miscarriages--I invite a support group of these women to talk to my OB students every year--and they suffer through real loss and real pain.

It's not a great situation no matter how you look at it. However, I think the parents are making the best decision possible for a bad situation.

i admit, my biggest concern would be her ability to handle the pregnancy and the postpartum issues. many women can't handle it, let alone with the mentality of a child. those hormones are gonna wreck hell on her brain not to mention the panic during labour, unless they giver her a cesarean. either way, the girl is in for a world of pain and confusion. i hope if they have her go through with the pregnancy they give her appropriate medical care for her mental health as well as her physical.
i'm kinda suprised they didn't have her on BCP. my grandma worked in a group home in florida, and the girls with sexual tendencies were all offered the choice of BCP in with their daily meds to avoid accidental pregnancy.

The family is Catholic, and while many American Catholics openly use birth control, this one may be conservative and disapprove. And BC has it's own set of problems, particularly weight gain and risk of deep vein thrombosis.

The risks of pregnancy and the hormonal changes can be mitigated. Approached in a positive light, it could be a positive experience for the mother. Pain can be treated in a variety of ways with and without drugs. A cesarean is probably indicated due to her underlying medical issues; those will be the biggest challenge to the pregnancy.

There are a lot of risks whether the pregnancy is continued or not. She has legal guardians who are competent and have been informed of the risks. It's their call, and they should be allowed to make it without interference or judgement.

[Aethian]

I've talked to a lot of women who've had miscarriages--I invite a support group of these women to talk to my OB students every year--and they suffer through real loss and real pain.

Tell me about it...even tho I was between 6-7 weeks...there is a pain that just doesn't stop. That and it's so hard to get into groups that specialize in that around here, quite a waiting list to get in.

I can't imagine putting that heartache on a person with the mentality of a 6 year old.

[Andara Bledin]

It's worth noting that almost every woman who suffers the loss of her unborn child is aware and fully cognizant of what that loss means.

A woman with the mental capacity of a 6-year-old is highly unlikely to have nearly as full an understand of what pregnancy really is or have much, if any, attachment to the fetus developing inside of her, and thus, if that fetus were to be lost or aborted, is much less likely to suffer the psychological damage of a fully-functional adult.

We cannot fall into the trap of thinking that just because she has an adult body that she will react to the loss of the fetus in the same manner as an adult woman.

Also, if we agree that there are risks with both abortion and birth and (for simplicity's sake) judge them to be roughly equal, then the abortion would actually be the lesser of evils due to the fact that the wait time and recovery are far less than carrying a child through birth.

Forcing her to carry the child to term would be sentencing her to several months of hormonal changes and physical discomfort followed by hours of what is typically an excruciating event further followed by additional hormonal and physical issues that can last several more months. None of which she is likely to truly understand and thus be unable to truly deal with. All of which to satisfy the belief systems of other people for a child that not only is she unlikely to have any attachment to, but which she also will not be allowed to even keep, so if it were argued that she could form an attachment that would make an abortion traumatic, then the forced taking away of the baby would be even more traumatic.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

I would think either procedure could be performed with her under general anesthesia, assuming a c-section is performed, but it's unknown what kind of reactions or risks would be there due to the medications she's already on. Hopefully they figure something out before it's too late.

[Panacea]

A woman with the mental capacity of a 6-year-old is highly unlikely to have nearly as full an understand of what pregnancy really is or have much, if any, attachment to the fetus developing inside of her, and thus, if that fetus were to be lost or aborted, is much less likely to suffer the psychological damage of a fully-functional adult.

You're making a HUGE assumption there. Children can and do understand death on a basic level. There's no reason to believe she would not develop a bond with the fetus or that she wouldn't suffer loss if the pregnancy fails for whatever reason.

We cannot fall into the trap of thinking that just because she has an adult body that she will react to the loss of the fetus in the same manner as an adult woman.

We can't fall into the trap of thinking she won't react negatively. She'll react in her own way, regardless of which way it goes.

Also, if we agree that there are risks with both abortion and birth and (for simplicity's sake) judge them to be roughly equal, then the abortion would actually be the lesser of evils due to the fact that the wait time and recovery are far less than carrying a child through birth.

Whether or not something is the greater or lesser of two evils varies widely from one person to the next. We know nothing of the family dynamic, or the personality of the pregnant girl involved. The real issue that might make your statement true is the issue of her epilepsy. Since many anti-epileptics cause birth defects, and there are risks to both mother and baby if she does not take them, it could create an undue risk for that reason. It may be possible to mitigate that risk; as I pointed out earlier in this thread, women face this issue all the time.

Forcing her to carry the child to term would be sentencing her to several months of hormonal changes and physical discomfort followed by hours of what is typically an excruciating event further followed by additional hormonal and physical issues that can last several more months. None of which she is likely to truly understand and thus be unable to truly deal with. All of which to satisfy the belief systems of other people for a child that not only is she unlikely to have any attachment to, but which she also will not be allowed to even keep, so if it were argued that she could form an attachment that would make an abortion traumatic, then the forced taking away of the baby would be even more traumatic.

Every woman handles pregnancy differently. Some women experience little if any discomfort and actually enjoy being pregnant. Others are miserable with morning sickness that lasts the entire pregnancy and mood swings. And every variation inbetween. You're assuming all the negatives, while ignoring the positives.

And not every woman suffers from post partum depression. And she might very well have an attachment to the baby and grieve its loss when it is give to adoptive parents . . . though it's possible the adoptive parents might allow visitation.

The point is there are far too many what ifs and variations. Its not as black and white as you are making it out to be. The real issue is this: are the parents capable of making informed decisions with the well being of their daughter in mind? If so, then it doesn't matter that faith plays a part in their decision making process; they care for their daughter's soul, and that shows an interest in her well being. They've lined up potential adoptive parents, which shows an interest in the well being of the potential grand child.

I suspect the judge will rule in favor of the parents.

[Nyoibo]

I think there's one thing that seems to be overlooked here, she's not a woman, she's a girl.

[dendawg]

...she's a girl.

Intellectually, yes. Physically, no.

[Nyoibo]

Intellectually, yes. Physically, no.

You could say the same about some 12 and 13 years olds.

[Duelist925]

You could say the same about some 12 and 13 years olds.

You really can't--while a 12 or 13 year old may have the capability of getting pregnant, the possibilty of them having the mental maturity necessary, not to mention the biological ability to give birth without a LOT of bad things happening is much slimmer than that of an older woman.