more shootings in the states

[Gravekeeper]

The same can be said about the other side as well.

The other side isn't arguing for your children to go to class in a police state and be taught by someone with an assault rifle. ;p

Though I'm half the NRA membership is groaning just as much over the NRA's leadership at the moment.

Also, an interesting note: The states with the most (not necessarily highest) educated populations are also those with the lowest levels of violent crime. And those with the highest rates of illiteracy are most violent. So it seems to me that, working on getting more people educated might be a more useful tool in reducing violent crime.

They're also the states that are financially net losses for the union. Like I was saying before, the core of this is social issues. Gun control is just icing on the shit cake. They can change the flavour and make the cake taste a little bit better, but its still ultimately a shit cake. -.-

[Andara Bledin]

They're also the states that are financially net losses for the union.

Actually, that's not quite true. There are a few states near the top 1/5 economically that are also in the bottom 1/5 for education and also the top 1/5 for violence. That was among the statistics that I was perusing last night and while I tried to find correlation, it didn't track very well. Education, however, tracks much more closely for a variety of social issues, of which violent crime - and gun crime - is just one.

^-.-^

[insertNameHere]

If anything, to be honest, if they just made selling guns and ammo over the Internet illegal it would be an amazing first step. There is no way for those websites to know if they're sending stuff to Joe-I-Like-Venison-So-I-Hunt or to Mentally-Unstable-Sam.

Which is why the gun must be sent to an FFL in receiving persons state who does a background check before transferring the firearm.

As far as ammo most places online make you check the box saying your legally allowed to get the ammo, of course people can lie. But with how regulated guns are I think it would be a pain in the ass to also regulate bullets wondering how that is working out of california.

Side note, if I have to show ID and get logged whenever I buy ammo I might as well start buying 2-3K rounds at a time to keep from it being a hassle. Also as someone mentioned are they gonna watch me shoot the ammo. Does it really matter how much I have or use? The media just likes shocking headlines such as the other day I bought 4 boxes of 22lr ammo.... it comes in 550rd boxes so OVER TWO THOUSAND ROUNDS bought at once for a high capacity rifle!!!!! Since I have a 25rd mag for a ruger 10/22. With the right wording I could easily make a ruger 10/22 media scary like they do with ar15s

[Jester]

You do realize that guns aren't actually the major problem, anyone else remember reading about the 20 kids STABBED TO DEATH IN SCHOOL in China that happened earlier last week?

22 children were stabbed in a school in China. All survived.

20 children were shot in a school in Connecticut. None survived.

I'm sorry, you were saying?

What restrictions would you suggest? Furthermore, if someone can't get get a gun what's to stop them from using another method?

What other methods have been used to date to cause the death of large numbers of people by a single nut job, other than guns? Oklahoma City bombing, okay. Any others? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Has anyone here ever heard of anyone causing the deaths of a large number of people using a knife, a bow, a car, a baseball bat, a bow, a sword, a club, or any other item that people love to cite as potentially deadly weapons "equivalent" to guns? No? I didn't think so.

And even on the chance that there is some random story about someone doing just that, is there an epidemic of such attacks, as there has been with guns?

From what I've seen many people are looking at guns as the culprit and using that as a reason to avoid trying to find the underlying cause that leads people to such extreme acts of violence. Admittedly blaming everything on guns is the easier option, but finding and curing the cause of this violence would likely be more useful in the long run.

Guns are NOT the culprit. Anyone with half a brain knows this.

However, easy access to guns is definitely a contributing factor.

We need to address not only the easy access to guns, but also the mental health care system in this country. THOSE are the major culprits. Not guns themselves.

Well, that would take the guns out of the hands of the law-abiding citizens. Unfortunately, the law-abiding citizens aren't the problem. The people who don't obey the laws are, and they're not going to abide by any new gun laws either.

It's not career criminals shooting up schools, theaters, and malls. It's nut jobs who have, up to that point, BEEN law-abiding citizens.

And for the umpteenth time, we're not talking about taking guns from law-abiding citizens who aren't nut jobs. We're talking about intelligent and reasonable gun control laws that would reduce the number of such attacks and reduce their deadliness, although eliminating such things is, of course, impossible.

Barring an all-out ban on guns that makes it illegal for anyone without a specific license to have one, and require all sales to be through licensed vendors with records of every single sale, you're not going to do much at all to restrict criminals who already don't obey the law from failing to obey that one as well. And even if you went there (which I doubt could be made to happen without re-writing the Constitution), I strongly suspect that it still wouldn't do much to stem the tide of criminals carrying guns.

I've already commented on the criminals carrying guns angle. Criminals aren't shooting up schools. Whackos are.

But as for the Constitution, we could absolutely pass sensible gun regulations without rewriting the Constitution. See below.

Plus, as scary as guns are, they're still not the most devastating weapon for killing large numbers of people and aren't the most difficult to stop and protect against, either, so I'm not sure making them choose other means wouldn't increase the death toll when these people commit their crimes.

Really? What is easier for the average person to get and more efficient at killing a large number of people, even at a distance, than guns? Just wondering. I'll wait.

The Aurora killer has his apartment set up with some sophisticated booby traps...

How many people die each year from sophisticated booby traps set up in some nut job's home? And is there an epidemic of large numbers of people being killed by sophisticated booby traps set up in some nut job's home? Just wondering. Again, I'll wait.

...if buying bullets costs too much, people will just "roll their own." It's trivially easy to cast new bullets if you've got the casings and a source of lead.

I actually ran across some bullet-casting molds at a yard sale a year or two ago, and I am not exactly in the sticks, either.

Can we at least all agree that the NRA is a bunch of delusional idiots living in a fantasy world? -.-

Their leadership is, anyway. But approximately 3/4 of NRA members are IN FAVOR of background checks and waiting periods. Which means even NRA members admit the need for some regulation of guns.

The problem with the licensing issue is that gun ownership is a Constitutional right. No other item has that same protection, so comparisons aren't nearly as equal as it seems like they should be.

How quickly people forget the First Amendment.

That protects, among other things, free speech. Which CAN and HAS been regulated, legally and Constitutionally.

Regulatory gun laws would not violate the Constitutional right to own guns, it would simply regulate it, which is perfectly allowable under the Constitution, and has been done with other rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

Regulation, if done correctly, is not unconstitutional.