Stuebenville High School Rape

[Sarah Valentine]

I think the rapists and bullies should just DIAF, they have no remorse the only thing they feel bad about is the fact that they look bad on tv and they're gonna be punnished.

[lordlundar]

And now the one who got the ball rolling might face a longer jail time than the rapists, believes he was targeted by Stuebenville officials.

I stand by my earlier statement. Get the girl and her family out of there then just nuke the place.

[Andara Bledin]

It's worth noting that while he "could" receive up to 10 years for hacking, a LulzSec member who was up on hacking charges that could have led up to 30 years in prison was able to plea down to just 2 years. Considering that it is unlikely that he had anything to do with the charges involved, there's a high potential he won't have to deal with more than the harassment of the charges and trial themselves.

It is still wrong, however, that electronic attacks that do no more than temporary economic harm are given harsher and disproportionate sentences as compared to actions that permanently damage people's lives and wellbeing.

[s_stabeler]

actually, those electronic attacks CAN do permanant harm. I remember reading a stastistic in quite a few places that in the event of a major data loss ( say, the hacker deleted the cardholder details of a credit card company) then most ( I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was 60 or 70 % IIRC) companies that hadn't recovered from backups in 3 days went bankrupt within a couple of years. It's why the penalties can be so harsh and yet bargained down to much less severe penalties- The harshest penalties are for people who do the worst harm, while when it is clear there is just temporary economic harm, the penalties are propotionately lower.

[Fire_on_High]

The defense on the Zimmerman case is expected to paint Martin as a druggie, thuggie punk ganger who routinely broke into lockers at school and was casing houses in the neighborhood for later burglary on the night of the shooting.

He had only been busted with burglary tools before, and had the fixins for a druggie drink called Lean on him at the time he was killed, as well as FB posts on record that he liked Lean.

Why, whatever would make any reasonable person think those things?!

[Nekojin]

Martin's character is wholly irrelevant to the trial at hand. Is it possible that he's exactly the sort of juvenile punk that the defense wants to paint him as? Yes, it's possible. But Zimmerman had no way to know that.

It doesn't matter if he's a saint or Lucifer's finest hellspawn, he has to be doing something to arouse suspicion - something more than just being young, black, and wearing a hoodie. If you want to say that Martin somehow "deserved it" because of the kind of person he was... well, that says more about you than Martin.

[Fire_on_High]

The kind of person he is influenced his actions which led directly to his death. Were his actions the actions of an innocent person being addressed by a neighborhood watchman? Or were they the actions of someone who really, really didn't want someone looking too close and catching them?

Also, having burglary tools, stolen goods, slouching around in the dark, and there being recent break ins seems like it's a pretty clear cut match for suspicion, all reactionary aggression aside.

[s_stabeler]

true, but remember two things: 1) the defense only needs to introduce reasonable doubt- if, in the jury's opinion, Zimmerman may have been justified, they must aquit. 2) everyone is entitled to the best possible defence. If character assassination of the victim is the only possible defense... (it's why you often get the defense in rape cases claiming the victim was a slut- it's the only defense left, and the lawyer could actually be held liable if he didn't try it. It's the client who can refuse to employ a defense, not the lawyer.)

[Andara Bledin]

Also, having burglary tools, stolen goods, slouching around in the dark, and there being recent break ins seems like it's a pretty clear cut match for suspicion, all reactionary aggression aside.

And.... all of that is actually utterly irrelevant. "Slouching around in the dark"? Really? He was chatting on the phone with his girlfriend while walking in the direction of the place he was staying. Those two activities are not exactly complimentary.

[Nekojin]

Furthermore, all characterizations of Martin's actions and behavior come from one point only - Zimmerman's statements. We don't know how Martin was behaving - we only know how Zimmerman said he was behaving on the 911 call. Is his testimony inherently to be trusted, carte blanche? Well, no. For the first part, he's the murderer. You don't simply take him at his word when he's the one on the stand. For the second part, he has lied and changed his testimony several times. You can't take his word because he can't even keep his story straight. For the third part, Zimmerman and his wife have lied to the court when asked about their donation funds and passports during their bail hearing.

And I'll once again go back to the basics. Martin's character is completely irrelevant. He could have been the lowest gang-banger rapist in the world, but Zimmerman knew nothing about him. Zimmerman had no reason to get out of his car to chase him, and the 911 operator even told him not to follow. Zimmerman made a vague agreement to the 911 operator's suggestion that he didn't need to follow, and then did anyway. Zimmerman precipitated the encounter.

If your suggestion is that Martin deserved to die because he was vaguely thuggish and behaving suspiciously*, I'm sorry to say it, you're a racist. Nobody deserves to be murdered by an overzealous vigilante. Let the courts do their work.

* This argument is akin to saying that rape victims deserved to be raped because of how they dressed and acted. Nobody deserves that. Nobody.

(Also see that other video posted the other day here, where the black dude was called out for stealing the bike, while the white dude was mostly left alone, and the cute white girl was helped to steal the bike).

[crashhelmet]

For the second part, he has lied and changed his testimony several times. You can't take his word because he can't even keep his story straight. For the third part, Zimmerman and his wife have lied to the court when asked about their donation funds and passports during their bail hearing.

It's truly amazing how many people in the Pro-Zimmerman and/or Anti-Trayvon camp(s) forget this.

[s_stabeler]

It's truly amazing how many people in the Pro-Zimmerman and/or Anti-Trayvon camp(s) forget this.

correction- its' truly amazing how there IS a Pro-Zimmerman camp.

[lordlundar]

correction- its' truly amazing how there IS a Pro-Zimmerman camp.

Largely because they're racist assholes that try to use 2nd amendment arguments to justify it.

[Andara Bledin]

Largely because they're racist assholes that try to use 2nd amendment arguments to justify it.

I agree that the majority of pro-Z camp are bigots, but it's unclear whether their racist, classist, or they just have an issue with "young punks."

[bara]

Im still waiting to hear why Zimmerman even got out of his car.

Regardless of Martin's character this is the big thing that has me believing Zimmerman is guilty.