Stuebenville High School Rape

[violiav]

But people who do it don't do it to provoke thought and reflection. I have yet to see any kind of rape joke that was meant to provoke thought and reflection, and wasn't done just to show "Hey look how scandalous I can be" to people who laugh because they're either apathetic dickheads or they're trying to "stick it those milk drinking political correct wusses."

It's hard to focus on the latter when I don't see any of the latter, just apathetic dickheads being apathetic dickheads. When the reaction is to send victims of rape into a PTSD episode, it's hard to ignore it, and frankly, I think it's irresponsible to just ignore it and not call people out on it.

I'd say it's more of a "whistling in the dark"/ using levity to make an awkward situation comfortable type thing. Everyone processes information and events differently, and not everyone has the same level of x=offensive.

[protege]

I've been to Steubenville...and it's a shithole. There's very little in the way of economic activity, and there have been allegations of political corruption. No wonder then has this incident been squelched.

But, it doesn't really surprise me that there was an attempt of a coverup. Athletes in general get quite a few strings pulled when the shit hits the fan. For example, I know of a girl down the street who was sexually assaulted by a member of my high school football team. I didn't know the bastard, since it happened long after I graduated. I do know that he wasn't charged of that...or even after he allegedly threatened her to keep it quiet. Nope, he got away with it and managed to keep the college scholarship he landed. His life went on as usual.

Not so for the child that he attacked. She was about 7-8 when it happened. Years of counseling, and she's still pretty messed up. Withdrawn, paranoid, and rarely seen outside

[Nyoibo]

Rape jokes are never funny. Ever.

I've seen what happens when a victim of rape is within earshot of someone making a joke like that.


I will never, ever find rape or sexual assault jokes funny. No one else should either.

And I've seen what happens when a victim of rape makes a rape joke, it was part of their coping and moving on, just because you don't find them funny or appropriate does not make it law that everyone must not find them funny and condemn them, each persons experience and reactions are different.

Saying that making a joke reinforces some type of sub-culture is ridiculous, that means that just about everyone is guilty of supporting some form of sub-culture, dead baby joke = abortion or infanticide culture, joke where someone is killed = murder culture, joke where someone dies = death/suicide culture, joke about someone drinking = drug culture, blonde jokes = sexist/racist culture, ect.

To quote Stephen Fry
'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry

It may sound like I'm being a heartless prick, but, what may be offensive to someone may be theraputic to someone else, just because you* don't agree with or like it does not give you* the right to dictate what others must do.

The you used here is meant in the general sense of someone other than me and not directed at any one person.

[siead_lietrathua]

rape victim here, and i've made rape jokes, and rarely get triggered by them.
while making them was, at first a coping method, i dont get bothered now because i came to some conclusions:
rape jokes =/= rape.
people who would make rape jokes =/= people who would rape.
joke =/= serious intent or consideration.

however, i did find the joke Nekojin said above tasteless. not because of the content, but because of how it was presented. someone shared their personal rape story. to respond to it with black humor without knowing first hand if the poster would be triggered or offended is crass.
THAT BEING SAID!
until BlaqueKatt logs back in, and tells us whether or not she was offended, perhaps we can roll back a bit on the flame war. she was the one whose story was joked about. let her be the one to bite off Nekojin's head if she is pissed. I've seen her posting on here long enough to know she's a tough ass lady who doesn't need white knights.

[lordlundar]

So you're not offended by it because it doesn't affect you. Good for you.

And if someone comes in and reads it and gets offended or if it triggers a breakdown, well they don't matter because it's not pointed at them, right? People can't possibly be personally offended, they have to be white-knighting according to you. And your answer to anyone who might be offended is essentially "get over it" and they have no right to voice their anger.

Fuck that.

I'm pissed off because it does piss me off and the acts of trying to defend it aren't helping matters. And you trying to say I have no right to post my displeasure is fucking worse.

There's a prime example of what happens when this shit goes out of control, it's called X-Box Live. You know, that dreck of humanity where rape is regularly made fun of and mocked. It's now marginalized to the point where only the assholes populate it. It's disgusting and proof that the scum of humanity congregate. It's even worse if your a woman. Most won't even use it because of that very reason.

You want to say there's no "rape culture"? There's the microcosm counterpoint. It's bad enough it exists there let alone spreading out from it.

But hey, it's not pointed at anyone in particular so we should all get laugh and ignore it. Meanwhile another person who was raped and molested sees the jokes flying around, find themselves unable to cope and hangs themselves doesn't matter because the jokes aren't pointed at them. All to defend your precious capability to say "it's not pointed at you so you have no right to talk about it."

What other excuse are you going to use to defend that disgusting video now? After all, all he's doing is joking about rape, right? It's just a joke after all. And it's not pointed at us, so we have no right to be offended according to you.

Oh, you weren't aware that I was pointing out the original video as well, not just Nekojin's comment? Guess what, the same arguments apply.

[violiav]

Whoa. Whoa. Let's just hold on one moment there.

it's called X-Box Live

Sure, there's idiots that use Xbox live, but to call it a wasteland of rape-joking scum is a little excessive. Both my bf and I have live account, either to game with our friends online or Netflix. If we do wade out into the general population (MW2,etc) we dont talk to them. Why would we? We don't know them. If I wanna talk to an annoying 13 year old I can just go to the next room.
That being said, there is a strong thread of mysogoney in the gaming/geek subculture that should be addressed, but that's not really in part of this conversation.

I would hope that if someone that is so bad off to where they could be set off by one comment is actively in therapy or has somesort of a safety net. That would be for anyone that's expericanced somesort of trauma.

Are you offended when rape is portrayed on TV and in movies? What about war? I'm sure there's plenty of soldiers with PTSD that are affected by that.
Should people stop making tacky priest jokes because someone nearby might be Calthioc?
Point is there is somethng out there to offend or bother everyone.

I don't think anyone was defending the actions of the people In the video. They are saying that it's not evidence of a rape "culture". I would say a culture of mysogoney, before I would say rape culture.

[Greenday]

Are you offended when rape is portrayed on TV and in movies? What about war? I'm sure there's plenty of soldiers with PTSD that are affected by that.
Should people stop making tacky priest jokes because someone nearby might be Calthioc?
Point is there is somethng out there to offend or bother everyone.

It's a matter of knowing your audience. And Fratching is not the appropriate audience for that kind of joke. I don't walk up to a bunch of black guys and start making black jokes. I don't walk up to a group of women and start telling women jokes. So why would it be okay to make rape jokes to rape victims if we don't know how they are going to react? You just don't do it.

[Mytical]

It's a matter of knowing your audience. And Fratching is not the appropriate audience for that kind of joke. I don't walk up to a bunch of black guys and start making black jokes. I don't walk up to a group of women and start telling women jokes. So why would it be okay to make rape jokes to rape victims if we don't know how they are going to react? You just don't do it.

I'll not comment on the joke, but I have walked up to several black guys and started making black jokes. They made jokes back. It was a blast. Of course I KNEW the black guys, and I KNEW they would find the jokes funny. My favorite comeback of theirs was this one. "What is black and blue and floats down the river?" "A white guy who was telling black jokes." Yes, they were joking, and I knew it. Here is the thing.

Jokes are jokes. If a black guy can tell a joke to other black guys and they laugh, then any race should be able to tell that joke. Shouldn't matter what color of skin. I am taking this way off topic, my apologies to the OP. I'll start a thread about it.

[Nyoibo]

So you're not offended by it because it doesn't affect you. Good for you.

And if someone comes in and reads it and gets offended or if it triggers a breakdown, well they don't matter because it's not pointed at them, right? People can't possibly be personally offended, they have to be white-knighting according to you. And your answer to anyone who might be offended is essentially "get over it" and they have no right to voice their anger.

Fuck that.

I'm pissed off because it does piss me off and the acts of trying to defend it aren't helping matters. And you trying to say I have no right to post my displeasure is fucking worse.


But hey, it's not pointed at anyone in particular so we should all get laugh and ignore it. Meanwhile another person who was raped and molested sees the jokes flying around, find themselves unable to cope and hangs themselves doesn't matter because the jokes aren't pointed at them. All to defend your precious capability to say "it's not pointed at you so you have no right to talk about it."

What other excuse are you going to use to defend that disgusting video now? After all, all he's doing is joking about rape, right? It's just a joke after all. And it's not pointed at us, so we have no right to be offended according to you.

So the person who was subjected to physical and mental abuse and trauma has flashbacks from reading your vitriolic aggressive rants, now you're guilty of the exact same thing you're accusing other people of, no matter what you do someone will find offence in it, if we censor ourselves to ensure we don't offend anyone we may as well stop talking or interacting at all and I'm sure someone would take offence to that as well.

[s_stabeler]

this is getting ridiculous.

a) no, people shouldn't censor themselves just in case some random person is offended
b) the point, as it were, was that a thread about people making utterly crass jokes about rape probably is not the place for a joke about rape.
c) something can be deemed offensive by a majority of the people somewhere. I that is the case, it is probably not a good idea to bring it up. ( for example, it's probably not a good idea to post an anti-gun thread on a pro-gun forum)

can we please let this rest now, and get back to the actual topic of the thread, which is discussing the rape case at Stubenville High School.

[siead_lietrathua]

And if someone comes in and reads it and gets offended or if it triggers a breakdown, well they don't matter because it's not pointed at them, right? People can't possibly be personally offended, they have to be white-knighting according to you.

not sure if this is directed at me, since i mentioned white knights, but apperantly you did not understand what i ment by it. let me bold for emphasis this time around. first i said:

however, i did find the joke Nekojin said above tasteless. not because of the content, but because of how it was presented. someone shared their personal rape story. to respond to it with black humor without knowing first hand if the poster would be triggered or offended is crass.

which shows that i was not defending what he said, that i disliked what he said, and gave the reason why i disliked it. then i said:

until BlaqueKatt logs back in, and tells us whether or not she was offended, perhaps we can roll back a bit on the flame war. she was the one whose story was joked about. let her be the one to bite off Nekojin's head if she is pissed. I've seen her posting on here long enough to know she's a tough ass lady who doesn't need white knights.

to reiterate, i said blaquekatt (from what i've seen of her through the forum) is a strong woman, who doesnt need people to white knight for her, since she is capable of ripping off neojins head herself quite admirably if she chooses, nor would anyone blame her.

as to the video, it holds the same distate to me as nekojin's joke. it's a rape joke directed at an individual who was known to be raped and to be mocking them for being raped/ mocking the circumstances of the rape. it's like mocking someone in a car crash for losing a leg. it's tasteless and crass.

to the rape joke thing:
perhaps part of the problem is that rape jokes lie across a broad spectrum. so to me, acceptable rape jokes are like when my hubs chases our friends around going "gropegropegrope" like pacman. it's a joke that is about rape (because any sexual assault is rape in my head), but with no harm intended.
wheras somebody joking about someone who was raped deserving it, or should have gotten worse, or being intensly graphic, would not be ok. it's degrees, like everything else in life.


to the thread topic: my heart grew three sizes when anon started leaking names and stuff. the trolls still get up to good now and then. and i hope that the social black mark stays with the jackasses that raped her since the court didnt help in her case.

[the_std]

I don't know, I think that this ties in quite well to the case of the Stuebenville rape, because Nekojin's choice of humour could easily reflect the acceptance of the so-called "rape culture" in the States, which seems to have lead to an entire town attempting to cover up/forgive these rapists of their crimes.

I haven't seen a full statement made here that I entirely agree with. My feelings on the issue of this "rape culture" problem are conflicted.

On one hand, I truly believe that Nekojin's choice of venue to make that joke was tacky and poorly thought-out, especially seeing as how there are a couple of members of this board who have vocalized their feelings and reactions to their own abuse MANY, many times.

On the other, I engage in black or seemingly-inappropriate humour on a regular basis. The caveat is that I do this with my friends, people I know I won't insult, and if I accidentally hurt someone's feelings, I apologize and refrain some saying such things to them again.

As Greenday said, it's all about knowing your audience, and I think Nekojin picked a poor place to express those sentiments, rather than poorly chooses those sentiments themselves.

[HYHYBT]

It seems to me that this is very similar to the difference between reality and imagination.

There are many things I enjoy imagining which I would be horrified at actually happening, whether to me or to anyone else. Most people are like that. (but apparently not all; at least, I've run into people who claim they don't and who don't even seem capable of grasping the concept).

Some such things are only good in my head; others are good for acting out, some are fun in stories, like books or movies.

Jokes, I see as sort of the same way. Quite a lot of good ones would be horrible if they were real events; but they can be enjoyed by accepting, only for the purpose and duration of the joke, only the aspects of the framework they rely on which are immediately necessary to make them work, *without* the further implications and without bringing any of that back into the real world, so to speak.

To say that this one thing cannot be joked about is to grant it more power. And that benefits no one. (Which has nothing to do with the OP directly; laughing about a real act you've committed as if it were nothing is quite different than making a comment that implies you would do something nobody reading has any rational cause to believe you'd really do.)

[lordlundar]

The city of Steubenville has published their own web site to detail the "true" facts of the case.

Steubenville Facts

There isn't really anything to counter what Anonymous is revealing. In fact, they seem to attack the notion that they released in the info.

Yeah, back on the topic here.

What do expect when the Sherriff's office destroyed key evidence, the chief prosecutor is one of the defendant's mother who intimated the victim from filing charges, the judge who allowed the defendants to be transferred to juvie court (for the track record, similar cases required defendants of similar age groups to be charged as adults automatically), and the coach who just happens to be on the juvie court?

At this point I'm in favour of whisking the victim and her family out of that shithole and nuking it from orbit.

[RedRoseSpiral]

Yeah, back on the topic here.

What do expect when the Sherriff's office destroyed key evidence, the chief prosecutor is one of the defendant's mother who intimated the victim from filing charges, the judge who allowed the defendants to be transferred to juvie court (for the track record, similar cases required defendants of similar age groups to be charged as adults automatically), and the coach who just happens to be on the juvie court?

At this point I'm in favour of whisking the victim and her family out of that shithole and nuking it from orbit.

The more I read about the place, the more I think nuking it is a great idea. They have decades of corruption and mafia ties. Other victims of the "Rape Crew" have starting coming forward. One article I read was about a 13 year old victim from last April who was told by the sheriff back in September-October (article wasn't too clear on the date) that the statute of limitations had run out for her to report the crime.

I've read blog posts about people who live/have lived there and what a shit hole it is, and how the high school football team is the only "worthwhile" thing there.