Why is it not ok to "slutshame" but it is to "virginshame"?

[gremcint]

No seriously that's the entire thread. Why is it a bad thing to comment on someone having sex but perfectly ok to mock those abstaining?

[Andara Bledin]

It's not.

^-.-^

[bara]

Back in '99 while I was up in Alaska some of the guys were funning with me about being a virgin. My Platoon Sergeant told them it meant I was smarter than them since I wasnt married.

[Duelist925]

To quote Andara "its not."

A lot of the "sex positive" advocates I've seen via social media have usually been for a "whatever a person does with their body is THEIR decision, and should be respected" kinda mindset--wether it was "sleep with everything under the sun because its fun" or "save it for a special someone" kinda thing, that was their choice, and should be respected.

[Hyena Dandy]

Because some people are stupid, and confuse being sex positive with sex being positive (inherently)

[Rageaholic]

I would bet that the people who virgin shame are the same ones who slut shame.

[Jaden]

I would bet that the people who virgin shame are the same ones who slut shame.

This is probably the correct idea, at least among males, where this would generally be the case, I assume. As in, a misogynist male would probably be the most likely both to slut shame women for daring to sleep with people who aren't him, and virgin shame their fellow men for daring to not sex it up at every available opportunity. I know slut shaming is common among women, too, but generally for different reasons, and as far as I know, virgin shaming certainly doesn't seem to be as common.

[HYHYBT]

Even when unspoken... well, I find it embarrassing having to explain why I'm gay and yet allowed to donate blood. At some point (and whatever it is, it's far before the age of 38) everyone is just *expected* to have had sex, and if you say you haven't then a lot of people think either you're lying or there's something seriously wrong with you. Even when they're polite enough not to come right out and say so.

[Ree]

It's not.

And yet...it is.

Just look at all the movies and sitcoms with plotlines that involve a necessity for a character to lose their virginity, as if it's a shameful and abnormal thing.

The virgin is the butt of the joke, and, in many case, the virginity is the joke.

[Greenday]

Even when unspoken... well, I find it embarrassing having to explain why I'm gay and yet allowed to donate blood. At some point (and whatever it is, it's far before the age of 38) everyone is just *expected* to have had sex, and if you say you haven't then a lot of people think either you're lying or there's something seriously wrong with you. Even when they're polite enough not to come right out and say so.

I still don't get why people who have had gay sex can't donate blood. This is 2013, haven't they figured out that gay sex isn't the cause of AIDS yet?

[Andara Bledin]

And yet...it is.

Just look at all the movies and sitcoms with plotlines that involve a necessity for a character to lose their virginity, as if it's a shameful and abnormal thing.

The virgin is the butt of the joke, and, in many case, the virginity is the joke.

Just because it's on TV doesn't make it any more ok than blacks being racist to whites on TV.

Sitcoms, specifically, pander to the lowest common denominator, and we all know that threshold isn't particularly high up there in either intelligence or enlightenment.

The fact is that currently, they (the slutshamers and virginshamers) aren't being called out on the fact that such behavior is unacceptable nearly enough. The more it is done, the less often it will be seen, and the less likely that children will propogate the same ideas.

^-.-^

[Ree]

Just because it's on TV doesn't make it any more ok than blacks being racist to whites on TV.

That's all well and good to say, but the reality is that racism is not tolerated as entertainment, while virgin shaming is.
"What should be," and "What is," are two very different things.

People aren't stepping up to speak out against it.
The more one is exposed to something that is presented in a way that is entertaining, the more acceptable it begins to seem.

Sitcoms may pander to the lowest common denominator, but they still dominate the media of television and some of the most notorious "virginity bashers" top the ratings.
The idea of virginity as something to be ashamed of, and being a freakish thing after a person reaches a certain age isn't just portrayed in sitcoms, though. It is a recurring theme in movies as well.

[Jaden]

If I might be of some help, I don't think you guys are using the same definition of "ok." I believe Andara is speaking from a more objective moral sense whereas you are speaking from the sense of societal standards. In other words, just because it's "ok" - i.e. you won't be punished or really looked down upon by a lot of people for doing it - doesn't mean it's ok in the grand scheme of things.

[TheHuckster]

I think there are a few things to consider here. I'm going to say right now that, yes there is an unfair stigma assigned to virgins, and those who choose to be celibate or "prudish" shouldn't be labeled negatively, nor should those who simply haven't gotten laid yet.

However...

A lot of media's portrayal of virginity are not necessarily that they are virgins in and of themselves, but of their repeated trying to get laid and failing miserably. Failing at things is a popular comedic element; there's an entire genre of Internet memes based on it, after all. I consider a lot of "virgin" jokes to be similar to jokes about characters who can't keep a job because they keep screwing themselves over, or other misfortunate characters who just keep getting the short end of the straw, whether by their own fault or due to some cosmic vendetta against them.

And because what happens in the bedroom is often a very personal, and sometimes embarrassing thing, it's a frequent butt of jokes. Add to that virgins are inexperienced at sexual intercourse, and it's especially comedic fodder.

I should also point out that, for example, in the 40 Year Old Virgin, the guy sticks to his principles about "putting sex on a pedestal" and in the end becomes the hero, while his more promiscuous friends get the shaft (pun intended?). Although he did need that push to be a bit more aggressive about finding someone to have romance with.

Similar themes occur in Fast Times at Ridgemount High and How I Met your Mother. The girl ends up with the virgin, who even in the epilogue hadn't "gone all the way... yet." And IMO Barney Stinsen's outrageous womanizing is far more of a joke than Marshall's relatively prudish thoughts about sex, having been with only one partner his entire life and IIRC, was pretty much celibate until he and Lily were at least very steady.

That said, simply being a virgin in and of itself shouldn't be an insult, especially in real life where there are many perfectly valid reasons for being one.

[guywithashovel]

On a somewhat similar note, have you noticed that it's often hard to get a middle ground on this? For example, if you suggest that maybe premarital sex isn't worthy of hellfire, the James Dobson crowd will act like you saying, "Every fourteen year-old should be having sex six times a day!" Then, if you suggest that maybe underage people would be well-advised to abstain, the people who use terms like "slut shaming" on a regular basis will act like you're saying everyone should live like nuns their whole lives.