The Dreaded "Nice Guy."

[Lace Neil Singer]

I once had a male mate come on to me. I turned him down cuz I didn't fancy him, but let him down gently with "I'm not interested in a relationship at the moment" and "I don't want to spoil our friendship". It worked, I think, cuz I stayed single for a few years after that. Had I immediately dated someone right after turning him down, I bet he would have just hated me.

[Andara Bledin]

I've been "Friend Zoned" in the past. Not every one was the same situation, but there were some where she had come out and said "Why can't I find a guy like you?"

The part that remains unspoken, is, "... that I'm attracted to."

People like what they like. No amount of niceness, meanness, etc, is going to change that.

Obviously, the don't want you, just someone like you with the addition of being attractive to them romantically.

Reminds me of something I read a while back...

That thing you quoted. That was written by exactly the type of guy this thread is complaining about.

It's not "But, we're going to hire somebody who is far less qualified and is probably an alcoholic." But rather, "But, we're going to hire someone who is a much better fit for our corporate culture who is a less optimal fit for our other requirements because we consider those to be less important and as long as you remain you, you will not be a fit for our culture, but we have no problem with you coming in to chat."

Ambrosiawriter nailed it. Just because you have one component that the other person is looking for in a relationship does not mean that it is the only component, nor that it is the primary components, or even that it is a pivotal component.

^-.-^

[Jaden]

Yeah, I mean, there really is no logic to why somebody is attracted to whoever they're attracted to. I don't take it personally that chicks don't dig me. I mean, it bothers me - I'd like to know why chicks don't dig me - but I don't take it as a grave insult. Not anymore at least.

All you single females reading this thread, though, please don't say things to your guy friends like "I wish I could find a guy like you!" No matter how good your intentions, it just makes things confusing.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

All you single females reading this thread, though, please don't say things to your guy friends like "I wish I could find a guy like you!" No matter how good your intentions, it just makes things confusing.

Yeah that sentence ends up being weird because I believe (benefit of the doubt) the person means it as a compliment, but it can generate a "What the hell are you talking about?"

It's just better off for everyone involved to stay away from "I wish I could find a guy/girl who <XX>" because while they say that one specific thing, it's really an entire laundry list that they may not be consciously aware that they have. Makes things awkward.

[TheHuckster]

I saw that, TheHuckster, but I find the analogy to be incorrect.

I responded the first time I saw it with this;

Actually, it's more like she prefers chocolate chip ice cream and you're mint chocolate chip ice cream. You have mostly all the same ingredients, but there is just something about you that does not attract her in that way.

Yes, except sometimes the chocolate chip ice cream makes her throw up violently and yet she keeps coming back for more, after venting to the mint chocolate chip ice cream, who acts as a peptic bismol.

[Hyena Dandy]

The "nice guy" phenomena does seem to be much more of a male thing, doesn't it? I wonder why that is. Probably because of societal portrayals of how men should treat women and such being misinterpreted.

I'm not entirely sure about that.

With women, it tends to be not "Guys only date bad girls" but "Guys only date dumb hot girls."

It's not literally the same complaint, but it all comes down to a similar effect.

"No-one is willing to be in a relationship with me. This is due not to a character flaw in me, but in a character flaw in the person I'm attracted to. /I/ would be a perfect boy/girlfriend, if only anyone would pay any attention to me. Which they won't, because everyone of the opposite gender is horrible and doesn't realize what they should REALLY want in relationships."

They're arguments that don't really allow the other gender to have individual people with individual tastes.

The reason I can't get a girl is because I'm too damn nice.
or
The reason I can't get a guy is that I'm not hot enough and they won't notice me.

It turns the other gender into stupid bad guys (or your gender - I've seen it in gay guys/lesbians as well) rather than putting any blame on the 'hot' or 'jerk' guys, as well.

Because ultimately, the nice guy/girlism in question isn't an expression of distaste for the people you're 'blaming' but for the people who aren't willing to pay attention to you. "I want to be with this person - This person does not want to be with me - Fuck them."

Because you're upset with them, you need to find a way to blame them - But because you also like them, you find a way that shifts the blame onto someone else.

Girls only like dicks! Guys only like hot chicks!

This is a character flaw in the girls/guys, who are too blinded by their naughty parts to actually see how awesome /I/ would be.

Edit: Further point - What's wrong with fedoras?

[guywithashovel]

I think a lot of the people who say "But I'm a nice guy/girl! Why can't I find someone?!?!?!" are just blowing off steam. It has become trendy to mock these people and portray them as wusses, shysters, etc., but let's be honest. If you're a decent person overall, and you're facing what seems like constant rejection, it can get frustrating. It can make you look at other people and think, "What the heck do they have that I don't?"

Maybe it is more of a male phenomenon. We males certainly get called out for doing this more often than females do. If it is true, I think a reason for it would be the incessant mixed signals about what a man is "supposed to be like." Let's face it. Pop culture lampoons the hell out of the "stereotypical male." When a guy sees that, what other message are you supposed to get other than "If I want to find someone, I need to be less manly (i.e. "nice")?

[AmbrosiaWriter]

Yes, except sometimes the chocolate chip ice cream makes her throw up violently and yet she keeps coming back for more, after venting to the mint chocolate chip ice cream, who acts as a peptic bismol.

Except you're now equating "acting as Pepto Bismol" as the choice she should make and she should date, which is, again, using LOGIC when this this a situation that inherently has no logic.

You're falling into the same trap again, using the same argument.

"She's dating this guy she's attracted to, and not me, but I'm nice and I'm the one she SHOULD be dating because I'm the Pepto Bismol and he's the makes her vomit."

See? You've changed nothing in your argument, and decided to side step the actual point of my analogy instead of addressing it.

When a guy sees that, what other message are you supposed to get other than "If I want to find someone, I need to be less manly (i.e. "nice")?

I think that's a problem though. They're saying "In order to get someone I need to be nice" and when they're 'nice' and don't get someone, they get bitter and feel entitled to the relationship because they had to "work at being nice."

What they need to do is not be a jackass, and be a good guy/gal because - SERIOUSLY - it's the RIGHT freaking thing to do, not because it's supposedly the magical method to getting a date/in someone's pants.

[TheHuckster]

Except you're now equating "acting as Pepto Bismol" as the choice she should make and she should date, which is, again, using LOGIC when this this a situation that inherently has no logic.

You're falling into the same trap again, using the same argument.

I get it, most of what I've been saying is in jest. I can understand how it may frustrate someone who does have feelings for her and, because there is no logic involved, is having a hard time with it.

[guywithashovel]

It may not be that they feel "entitled" to a relationship, but that they just feel like they're doing everything right, or most things right at least, and it still isn't working for them, and they're left thinking "What else can I do?" It doesn't mean the person is being a jackass.

It's like if I bought a new desk that needs to be assembled. I'm following the instruction manual to a T, and I still can't get the thing to go together right. Consequently, I get frustrated. Is it because I have an entitlement issue, or because it seems like I'm following the instructions correctly, but not getting the desired results? And yes, I'm sure distinctions can be made with this analogy, but I think it gets the point across.

[Andara Bledin]

Frustration is normal and natural.

Blaming the other person and their entire gender for it is where you end up in trouble. It's a refusal to accept either responsibility or the fact that life just doesn't work like that.

^-.-^

[guywithashovel]

Yes, blaming the other person or the whole gender is bad.

Overall, I am just trying to convey how many of the people in the so-called "nice guy" or "nice girl" groups feel when they rant about not being able to find someone despite being nice, or their own version of "nice."

[Hyena Dandy]

or because it seems like I'm following the instructions correctly, but not getting the desired results?

And that's the problem.

This sort of way that relationships are treated as if there's an instruction manual. Treating men/women like they're these robots that if you press the right buttons, sex comes out.

The only conclusion, when you see someone else in a relationship that you're not in, is that they're pressing the right buttons and you're not.

[Jaden]

Edit: Further point - What's wrong with fedoras?

My friends and I have a simple rule - "Nobody is cool enough to pull off a fedora." Several of us have tried. It just doesn't work.

Obviously, this is largely meant in jest, we don't actually care if people wear fedoras :P

As for on topic things, frustration certainly is natural, at least if you're open and honest about your intentions. But that's part of the problem. A lot of these "nice guys" start ranting about bitches rejecting them when there really was no rejection because the guy wasn't honest about his intentions to begin with. A lot of people dote on the object of their affection, but don't present themselves as anything more than friends. They don't mention any desire to take their relationship to a different level, they just wait for the girl to suddenly decide she wants to nail them.

[protege]

The only conclusion, when you see someone else in a relationship that you're not in, is that they're pressing the right buttons and you're not.

...and that's why it's so difficult for some of us. There's no logic to it. Like some sort of puzzle that cannot be solved, no matter what methods you use. Imagine constantly getting the same result--rejection. I can understand why some people might get upset or annoyed, or might say "fuck it" and give up. Hell, my *last* relationship of any sort...imploded 12 years ago. Not that I haven't been trying. But one or two dates is about it...and then I never hear from them again. No acting here, folks.