Full Disclosure in Real Estate

[violiav]

http://news.yahoo.com/pa-homeowner-s...ews-money.html

Recently widowed woman buys house, only to find out there was a murder suicide owner before last.

Should the seller have disclosed that?The PA courts say no, but I've always heard that they had to disclose deaths with-in 10 years.

I've seen instances of rentals disclosing deaths on the property (locally there was a shooting and when I was working on a database I came across that property).
I wonder if that depends on if the house is being sold by a relator or a FSBO?

[HYHYBT]

Likely depends on local ordinances.

Unless either nobody's cleaned up the mess or the murderer's likely to come back for some reason (unlikely in a suicide) then what does it matter?

My paternal grandfather shot himself in the shower. Grandma couldn't stand staying there, and moved out the next day... but when the house eventually sold, I don't think anyone had to give any explanations.

[Greenday]

If there's no current law on the subject, the Supreme Court won't even hear her argument. They can't make up laws. That's not how judges work.

[Nekojin]

http://news.yahoo.com/pa-homeowner-s...ews-money.html

Recently widowed woman buys house, only to find out there was a murder suicide owner before last.

I get that far, and my brain immediately says, "And? What's the problem? Is she afraid that the killer will come back for seconds? Or that the blood stains won't match her drapes?"

This is an emotional reaction, devoid of any rational thought. So what if there was a murder, or murder/suicide, in the house before? If it's been cleaned up, it shouldn't matter. This isn't some B-movie horror film, after all - a past murder (and especially murder/suicide) doesn't have any actual impact on how the place looks, or how well it insulates against the elements, or any of the other things we buy a house for. If the cozy house suddenly doesn't seem so cozy because you now know that people died in it, that change is entirely in your brain.

[Greenday]

Well, if she believes in evil spirits, odds are this house would have one after a murder/suicide.

[Nekojin]

Well, if she believes in evil spirits, odds are this house would have one after a murder/suicide.

Most houses older than 50 years have had death in them, and contrary to popular fantasy, most deaths aren't peaceful, quiet passing away in the night.

And believing in evil spirits is so last century millennia.

[Andara Bledin]

Well, if she believes in evil spirits, odds are this house would have one after a murder/suicide.

If one were to believe in evil spirits, then it would behoove one to have a house checked out by a medium or the like prior to purchase. The disclosure, or lack thereof, of any events within would be as completely irrelevant in either case since either you don't believe and it's a non-issue entirely, or you do believe and the medium would either find or clear the house independent of any preconceptions on the part of the prospective buyer.

^-.-^

[Nekojin]

If one were to believe in evil spirits, then it would behoove one to have a house checked out by a medium or the like prior to purchase. The disclosure, or lack thereof, of any events within would be as completely irrelevant in either case since either you don't believe and it's a non-issue entirely, or you do believe and the medium would either find or clear the house independent of any preconceptions on the part of the prospective buyer.

The problem is that there is a great big, unspoken middle ground in the US - one that sort-of believes in spirits, spooks, poltergeists, and so on, but who considers mediums, fortune tellers, and the like to be nothing but frauds. Yet another example of common cognitive dissonance.

[Hyena Dandy]

I think it probably should be disclosed, but I also don't think there's a legal requirement.

The change may be in your head, but what's in your head is still important to you. If they wouldn't have bought it knowing that, then I can see why you'd be pissed off.

Of course, they must have found out about the death somehow. Which means that finding out about it was possible before the sale. So research your house.

[anakhouri]

I would not live in a house that was reported to be haunted or had a violent, fatal event take place within. I consider myself a Fortean, which means I have a healthy skepticism but certianly don't discredit the possibility of malicious spirits.

However, I realize that this is MY thing so when we looked at houses I let the realtor know up front that I wished to be told of anything like that (almost disappointingly, none of the houses we looked at fell into these categories...she claimed ).

I actually know that no one died in my house as the former homeowners bought it new (for $20,000!) in the 1960's so it was only ever owned by them.

[Duelist925]

I get that far, and my brain immediately says, "And? What's the problem? Is she afraid that the killer will come back for seconds? Or that the blood stains won't match her drapes?"

This is an emotional reaction, devoid of any rational thought. So what if there was a murder, or murder/suicide, in the house before? If it's been cleaned up, it shouldn't matter. This isn't some B-movie horror film, after all - a past murder (and especially murder/suicide) doesn't have any actual impact on how the place looks, or how well it insulates against the elements, or any of the other things we buy a house for. If the cozy house suddenly doesn't seem so cozy because you now know that people died in it, that change is entirely in your brain.

It can affect resell value. Thats about the only reason I can think of beyond "omg ghosts"

[lordlundar]

It can affect resell value. Thats about the only reason I can think of beyond "omg ghosts"

Not directly. Paranormal concepts aside, people are squeamish about a body that was in there that did not die from natural causes. Apart from the fear of death, there's also the fear that the murderer might still be out there and knows where the house is. This makes the house a tougher sell and lowers it's sale price. When people see a house that it effectively a steal, there's a reason for it.

[Nekojin]

Not directly. Paranormal concepts aside, people are squeamish about a body that was in there that did not die from natural causes.

People are squeamish about death, period.

Apart from the fear of death, there's also the fear that the murderer might still be out there and knows where the house is.

Logically and statistically, this is such a minute probability that it's not even worth considering for a second. Deranged murderers returning to the scene of their murder to murder someone completely unrelated to the first murder is the stuff of slasher flicks. I won't say that it never happens, but it's so incredibly rare, that nobody even compiles statistics for it in the first place.

This makes the house a tougher sell and lowers it's sale price. When people see a house that it effectively a steal, there's a reason for it.

Yes, and it's usually because of unobvious actual defects, such as dry rot or unresolved building code violations (our house had a few of those).

[IDrinkaRum]

But what y'all are forgetting are those people out there who look for haunted places. Or places where famous/infamous murders take place. If a buyer with a morbid fascination for that type of thing found 2 houses they liked, both priced the same, etc., etc. and one had a murder/suicide/haunting and the other didn't the one with the "interesting" history would be bought by the buyer.

[protege]

Well, if she believes in evil spirits, odds are this house would have one after a murder/suicide.

Depends on the circumstances of the death. For example, I know of two deaths inside my house. The previous owner died in one of the bedrooms. She had cancer and went in her sleep. From all accounts, she was a nice lady. Second death, involved my white kitty. She had a heart attack in my kitchen, and died in my arms.

Compare that to the house next door. My neighbor killed himself last year. From what I understand, he overdosed on medications that he'd swiped from work. Apparently, he'd been fighting off depression for months, and it finally overtook him. Unlike my place, I'm sure that all the negative energy didn't go anywhere.