My "Nice Guy" dating response thread....

[HEMI6point1]

This thread Here has prompted me to write some things of my own.

1. There are many guys who are cool that are lumped in with the "assholes" simply because of the things they do that are considered "asshole-ish."

For example, women say they can't stand it when they give a guy their phone number and the guy waits 2-3 days to call. Yet if a guy calls her right away he's immediately written off as being a desperate moron. That's why people wait 2-3 days to call. Also, some women say it's a sign of being controlling when a guy "tells" her when he's taking her out instead of asking and when he "tells" her what restaurant he is taking her to instead of asking. When in reality, women love it because it's being assertive.

2. Looks are not just a man thing…..

There are times when you see this really pretty girl and she's with some scummy looking cretin. You are thinking, “And yet I’m still single.”

Number 4 on this article here explains it a lot better than I can (I know Cracked is a humor site, but many of their articles are quite informative).

3. Putting your foot down and playing he-man. Is it really a jerk move?

Some time ago, a reader on a data advice site asked one of the experts if it was a bad move to “let it slide” when his girlfriend announced that she was going to a birthday party but refused to invite him to come with her.

What did the expert say? “If I were you, I would have played he-man and demanded to know why she does not want to be seen with me. If she refuses, I would let her know that if she goes to that party the relationship is over. Done. Finished. Refusing to invite you is a big red flag and a sign she is losing interest in you.”

One of the comments on the article called the expert a “dickhead.” Is it really? Okay, maybe threatening to end the relationship is a bit much, but wanting to know why she is essentially ashamed to be seen with you is IMO pretty damn valid.

4. Getting lumped in with the “nice guys”….. all because of appearance or lack of a certain item.

I’ll say one thing further than I did in the Nice Guy thread. Look, if I was a girl I wouldn’t want to date a “Nice Guy” either.

However, I’ll use my personal experience here. A couple of months ago I sent a message to this girl on a popular dating site. This is what she messaged me back:

“Just got your letter. I’m sure that you’re a decent person, but why bother wasting time and effort emailing someone like me? I see you’re into cars, so I’ll put it this way for you: I’m a Ferrari. You cannot afford a Farrari. You can only afford a KIA so please stick to what you can afford. Thanks.”

I mean, really? But if I looked like Tom Brady or David Beckham her response to me would probably have been a lot more positive. It’s like without even realizing it, some guys (including me, sadly) are lumped in with the dreaded “Nice Guys” because they don’t look like a damn Ken doll.

Or in some cases, by not having something means they’re not good enough for them. Again, I’ll use personal experience: A girl I met online refused to chat with me anymore when she found out that I never went to a “real” college. There was another time I saw this girl’s profile and I was almost about to message her when I saw her post on the site’s forum that she would not date a man who worked at a call center for over 2-3 years. WTF?

[Andara Bledin]

I'm just going to chime in on number 3:

If it's not her party, then what the hell is any person, boyfriend or otherwise, doing demanding that the guest invite him to come along? The "expert" gave a really asshole answer; break up over your girlfriend not inviting you to someone else's party?

And, honestly, to jump to "she's ashamed to be seen with him" because she's not inviting him to someone else's party is incredibly narcissistic. It's not about him; it's about whoever the hell is having the birthday party, and if he doesn't even know that there's a party, that's a huge clue as to why the hell he's not invited.

Honestly, any guy who demanded to be invited to a party that was being thrown by someone he didn't know (and who might have specifically wanted only women or close friends to come) would be kicked to the curb so fast he wouldn't have time to finish some domineering ultimatum.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

Even aside from the specific case of the party, it's not reasonable to jump from "she wants to do this one thing without me" to "she's ashamed to be seen with me."

The phone thing is probably not a matter of people wanting it both ways, but of some preferring one and others the other... with their mood and how they feel about *you* being relevant variables. (I wonder.... why not ask "when would be a good time to call?") The restaurant thing, I very strongly suspect depends on how you go about doing it; lumping all "I say where and when we go" together and opposed to all "I ask what she wants" leaves out all manner of flexibility and attitude, which are all-important. It's not so much that you pick a place as that you're not a jerk about it and can adjust if it's incompatible with what she has in mind.

On the other hand, I'm about the last person who should ever attempt meaningful comment on dating-related topics...

[the_std]

That whole blog post/article and your responses are packed full of assumptions and misogyny.

For example, women say they can't stand it when they give a guy their phone number and the guy waits 2-3 days to call. Yet if a guy calls her right away he's immediately written off as being a desperate moron. That's why people wait 2-3 days to call. Also, some women say it's a sign of being controlling when a guy "tells" her when he's taking her out instead of asking and when he "tells" her what restaurant he is taking her to instead of asking. When in reality, women love it because it's being assertive.

This just lumps women together as flighty, indecisive idiots who lie to your face about what we want. Hint: we don't all want the same thing! I might be fine with a guy waiting three days to call me, and the next woman might prefer if he calls right away. And "desperate moron"? Just because you've seen one woman, or hell, even a dozen women, do it, does not mean it's something all women jump up and down for.

As for the man "telling" her that he's going to take her out and we love it cause he's being "assertive"? That is a bunch of fucking bullshit. Attractive assertiveness is not measured by how forceful a man is with a woman, it is measured by his self-confidence, and, by extension, an approach to his own existence that doesn't say "wimpy coward who hasn't grown up enough to deal with life". A man asking a woman if she wants to go out is not a sign of weakness, and most women who are worth your time aren't going to think that. However, there's a difference between, "Hey Andara, want to catch a movie later?" and "Andara, oh my gosh, I would consider it the highest honour such a beautiful, sensuous woman can bestow upon a lowly maggot such as myself if you would grace me with your presence on a date tomorrow night... Pleeeeeeease?"

That overly-praising, flowery attitude is what is generally a turn off. The begging and the assuring the woman that she is, of course, so much better than the man.

Notice how I said generally? That's because we all want different things, and lumping us all together is stupid.

There are times when you see this really pretty girl and she's with some scummy looking cretin. You are thinking, “And yet I’m still single.”

This statement is stupid on its face. That really pretty girl might be with that "scummy looking cretin" because he's a genuinely nice guy. Just because you want her and can't have her does not automatically make the dude she's with an asshole. It reduces women to chattel, saying that we must be paired with someone our physical equal, otherwise it's unfair to everyone else. And I understand lamenting the fact that you may see couples everywhere and envy them because you're single, but that loneliness does not give you good cause to lambast a perfect stranger for not living up to some random girl's outward beauty. It's incredibly shallow.

Number 4 on this article here explains it a lot better than I can (I know Cracked is a humor site, but many of their articles are quite informative).

Of course women are as shallow as men. To assume otherwise is a continuation of the "putting the pussy on a pedestal" problem that "nice guys" perpetuate. You know, the idea that women are perfect, but therefore they owe you for any nice thing you do. Some women are assholes and bitches and vainglorious dolts who date only for muscles and not for personality. So fucking what? You were just complaining about a pretty girl dating a scummy-looking dude. Both sexes are equally shallow, but that doesn't mean all men or all women are judging solely on looks. It means we're not all the same just because we have a vagina, just like you're not all the same because you have a penis.

Shocking revelation, I know.

3. Putting your foot down and playing he-man. Is it really a jerk move?

Some time ago, a reader on a data advice site asked one of the experts if it was a bad move to “let it slide” when his girlfriend announced that she was going to a birthday party but refused to invite him to come with her.

Andara has already adressed this one quite nicely.

4. Getting lumped in with the “nice guys”….. all because of appearance or lack of a certain item.

Guess what? Those women were materialistic or vain. They do not represent all of us as a whole. There are bitches out there who judge based on looks, who will not give everyone a second chance. That is their prerogative. But they did not lump you in with a "nice guy". They rejected you because you were A) hot enough or B) you didn't go to the right school. That has nothing to do with the whole "nice guy" scenario and has everything to do with those particular girls' hang ups.

[BlaqueKatt]

(I know Cracked is a humor site, but many of their articles are quite informative).

and maybe you should read this one, you're guilty of a few of these just from this posting.

And for the record, I'm judged based on things I DIDN'T EVEN DO.

I've been divorced twice, neither my fault(every guy I've dated, asks "what did YOU do wrong?")
I worked as a stripper, to pay my second husband's tuition(obviously, I'm a whore)
I can't have kids(I'm defective)
I have PTSD(I'm damaged goods)

And I get asked a lot why I'm with my husband, you want to know why?
He ASKED*, and he looked beyond what I was, and actually saw what I became.

*never had a single date in High School, because I might say no, because I was too pretty, and too smart.