Something Cool Involving Westboro Baptist Church!

[Jester]

No, seriously. This story really is cool. And it's not a vindictive "they got fucked" kinda cool. It's actually a very good story that, in my opinion, actually warms the heart and gives me a reason to have some faith in humanity.

[TheHuckster]

Despite what must have been quite a trying childhood and upbringing she was at least able to hold enough faith to defect to another church, instead of completely distancing herself from all faith. I find that quite interesting. I don't know if I would have done the same. I feel as though I'd completely swing out of religion all together.

[lordlundar]

And it's not a vindictive "they got fucked" kinda cool.

I don't know about that. he biggest insult a religion can receive is it's members losing faith.

Under any event, good on her and her sister for getting out of that cult and being able to give the WBC the middle digit salute that very few can.

[Greenday]

Hopefully her leaving can spark something inside the hearts of other young members of WBC and help them see the light.

[bara]

Hopefully her leaving can spark something inside the hearts of other young members of WBC and help them see the light.

A nice thought, but one of the major problems with any indoctrination the younger they are when it begins the harder it is to break free.

[Andara Bledin]

The article makes note that she isn't the first child of WBC to leave (there is mention of another man who had two children leave, who then provided for their new start as best he could despite their being "dead" to the church for leaving - it doesn't seem to be a particularly absolute shunning process), and her sister departed with her.

I imagine that those with siblings who are also disillusioned with the church have a far easier time leaving than those who would be alone and on their own. It's difficult enough for a child to leave the nest, even with support of the family; to leave when you know that there will be no support once you've gone is far more difficult and downright scary, particularly when that family provided absolute structure around your life.

But the article leads me to believe that Megan is an intelligent and savvy young woman who shouldn't have too much difficulty adapting to life in the greater world.

Two choice quotes that make me hope that she succeeds outside of WBC follow:

My doubts started with a conversation I had with David Abitbol [an Israeli web developer who’s part of the team behind the blog Jewlicious, on Twitter]. I would ask him questions about Judaism, and he would ask me questions about church doctrine. One day, he asked a specific question about one of our signs—‘Death Penalty for Fags’—and I was arguing for the church’s position, that it was a Levitical punishment and as completely appropriate now as it was then. He said, ‘But Jesus said’—and I thought it was funny he was quoting Jesus—‘Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.’ And then he connected it to another member of the church who had done something that, according to the Old Testament, was also punishable by death. I realized that if the death penalty was instituted for any sin, you completely cut off the opportunity to repent. And that’s what Jesus was talking about.

I’m trying to figure out which ones were good and smart, and which ones shouldn’t be there anymore. I don’t feel confident at all in my beliefs about God. That’s definitely scary. But I don’t believe anymore that God hates almost all of mankind. I don’t think that, if you do everything else in your life right and you happen to be gay, you’re automatically going to hell. I don’t believe anymore that WBC has a monopoly on truth.

^-.-^

[Jester]

Tangentially, unexpectedly, and quite unintentionally, I found the statement made last week by Megan and Grace Phelps-Roper. It is very enlightening, and adds a lot to the article linked above.

I do not know where Megan and Grace Phelps-Roper are going in their lives, nor where they will end up. I dare say they probably don't either. But this whole thing gives me faith and hope. Because, while there will always be people who are hateful, mean, angry, and hurtful, there will also always be people who recognize them as such, even from within their own group, and who will work in various and sundry ways against such negativity.

Just because someone is raised to believe in something, no matter how evil it is, doesn't mean they will always believe in it, will never question it, and will continue to spout that which they have been taught.

Bravo, Megan and Grace. I hope you both find the road you're looking for, and that with your newfound enlightenment, you can help fight against the hatred spawned by those such as your family and former churchmates, even though it may prove painful for you to so oppose those you love for that which you are discovering is right.

[Skunkle]

God bless them for getting out. And not just for that, but for deciding that their own beliefs on what God wants for them and for the world are just as important, if not more so, than those of someone else, especially someone else who seems firm in their belief that they are God's voice on earth.

One of Phelps' sons got out, too. He claims his father beat him to within inches of his life regularly, doing the same to his wife, and claiming God was punishing them through him. She says the church, on the whole, believes that what they're doing is good; some members were interviewed on TV recently and they said that 'love thy neighbor' stands - and telling your neighbor he's going to hell unless he changes is an act of pure love, and further, that anyone who doesn't say that to you hates you, intentionally or not.

But does Fred Phelps believe that? Possibly he does. But in my opinion, I believe that on some level, he knows in some way that he's not really on that path. He's enjoying his power too much and he knows. Or he's pushing his own agenda as God's and he knows. I could be wrong; Phelps used to be a lawyer, and he championed a lot of black civil rights cases. He was disbarred after taking a grudge against another (female) lawyer to the point of serious harassment. Maybe he really believes completely. Maybe he doesn't. Or maybe he's just very slowly gone insane.

No matter what, though, God bless the both of them for getting out. What hit me the hardest in this article was Westboro's claimed belief that gays should be subject to capital punishment: subjecting anyone to capital punishment removes their chance to repent. If one brings up real criminals here, I say keep them in prison for life, but leave them the chance to repent personally. For gays - who I do not believe to be sinning in what they are - even if you DO believe they're living in sin, that sort of response doesn't just violate 'thou shalt not kill,' it also removes their chance to make their own peace with God.

[linguist]

Lauren Drain, another former member who was excommunicated and ostracized after she began questioning church doctrine, has a book coming out soon about her life in the WBC. She also did an AMA on Reddit yesterday. Her story is pretty interesting, and she's really taken well to life in the real world. She actually did some promotional work for the No H8 campaign recently, which is up on her facebook page along with more about her book and her life in general.

[Mr. Anubite]

What hit me the hardest in this article was Westboro's claimed belief that gays should be subject to capital punishment: subjecting anyone to capital punishment removes their chance to repent.

If I remember an article I read correctly, they don't believe that gays are capable of repentance. Phelps claimed that that is why homosexuality is so important to them, because it's one of the few sins that God won't forgive, according to them.

[HYHYBT]

If I remember an article I read correctly, they don't believe that gays are capable of repentance. Phelps claimed that that is why homosexuality is so important to them, because it's one of the few sins that God won't forgive, according to them.

That "incapable of repentance" thing puts them nearer the truth, in a sense, than many churches, which insist on repentance from something that's neither chosen nor sinful... they just have the reason wrong

[wolfie]

If I remember an article I read correctly, they don't believe that gays are capable of repentance. Phelps claimed that that is why homosexuality is so important to them, because it's one of the few sins that God won't forgive, according to them.

That "incapable of repentance" thing puts them nearer the truth, in a sense, than many churches, which insist on repentance from something that's neither chosen nor sinful... they just have the reason wrong

Saying that homosexuals are not capable of repenting their orientation and "going straight" is like saying negroes are not capable of repenting their skin colour and "going white".

[Skunkle]

My question is: where in the Bible do they claim is written proof that the 'sin' of homosexuality is unforgivable?

I mean, sure, Leviticus calls a man "lying with a man as he lies with a woman" an "abomination" and says he shall be put to death, but it contains a whole litany of other abominations, many of which are things commonly done freely now (and not spoken out against) such as wearing clothing made from mixed fibers.

[s_stabeler]

Saying that homosexuals are not capable of repenting their orientation and "going straight" is like saying negroes are not capable of repenting their skin colour and "going white".

I think that's the point- there is nothing TO repent.

[Rapscallion]

My question is: where in the Bible do they claim is written proof that the 'sin' of homosexuality is unforgivable?

I mean, sure, Leviticus calls a man "lying with a man as he lies with a woman" an "abomination" and says he shall be put to death, but it contains a whole litany of other abominations, many of which are things commonly done freely now (and not spoken out against) such as wearing clothing made from mixed fibers.

Well, the whole wearing cloth of two fibres, cutting your hair, eating shellfish and all that are things that would be inconvenient to go along with these days. However, the rule about no happy bum fun allows extra levels of control through the medium of tribalism, and as long as you aren't in that particular group then what does it matter?

That's why.

Rapscallion