Once again, The Onion manages to nail an issue...

[draco664]

...with satire in a way that simple prose could not manage...

American Citizens Split on DOJ Memo Authorizing Government to Kill Them.

Great quote.

But on the other hand, it would kind of be nice to stay alive and have, maybe, a trial, actual evidence—stuff like that

[Greenday]

If you are an American citizen living in the Middle East actively working with terrorists, we shouldn't have to wait for you to come out of hiding to get you. A bullet in the face is all they deserve.

[Lady_Foxfire]

If you are an American citizen living in the Middle East actively working with terrorists, we shouldn't have to wait for you to come out of hiding to get you. A bullet in the face is all they deserve.

Ok, but how do you know they're working with terrorists without, you know, evidence and a trial? That's why we have the due process clause in the constitution; so that innocent people don't get thrown in jail or blown up by a drone without a chance to explain their side of the story.

[Greenday]

Ok, but how do you know they're working with terrorists without, you know, evidence and a trial? That's why we have the due process clause in the constitution; so that innocent people don't get thrown in jail or blown up by a drone without a chance to explain their side of the story.

The same way we get all intelligence. Spy networks. It's good enough for terrorists if they aren't American citizens but not good enough if they are? I suppose we could ask nicely and see how that works from now on.

[Jaden]

It's good enough for terrorists if they aren't American citizens but not good enough if they are?

Umm, yes, actually. I don't know why you're saying that as if it's some sort of logical fallacy. Just about every government treats citizens and non-citizens extremely differently, especially when it comes to trials and representation, and they have since national citizenship has been a thing. Nothing should impede an American citizen's right to a fair trial in America. Nothing.

[Greenday]

Umm, yes, actually. I don't know why you're saying that as if it's some sort of logical fallacy. Just about government treats citizens and non-citizens extremely differently, especially when it comes to trials and representation, and they have since national citizenship has been a thing. Nothing should impede an American citizen's right to a fair trial in America. Nothing.

Well, I guess that's where we differ. I believe some guy who turned his back on this country and is plotting to destroy it loses what he was given. I'd never tell a group of soldiers to walk into some cave and ask hostile enemies to surrender nicely. Their lives are worth more than a terrorist's.

[Nekojin]

I disagree. If an American citizen is collaborating with the enemy, every effort should be made to capture him alive and hold him for trial. This is justice, not vengeance. Your path allows for political assassination without appropriate oversight.

If, on the other hand, he gets shot in part of a battle (and no, not a "battle") with US forces, I won't shed any tears.

[Jaden]

Well, I guess that's where we differ. I believe some guy who turned his back on this country and is plotting to destroy it loses what he was given. I'd never tell a group of soldiers to walk into some cave and ask hostile enemies to surrender nicely. Their lives are worth more than a terrorist's.

Yes, of course in your very narrow definition of what it would cover it makes sense But this legislation allows them to detain or kill American citizens without trial out of sheer suspicion. If you cannot see the danger of such legislation, then I simply don't know what to tell you.

[Greenday]

Yes, of course in your very narrow definition of what it would cover it makes sense But this legislation allows them to detain or kill American citizens without trial out of sheer suspicion. If you cannot see the danger of such legislation, then I simply don't know what to tell you.

Remind me of how hanging out exclusively with a terrorist organization is only sheer suspicion.

[Mytical]

Ok Greenday..lets flip this on its ear. You would be ok if they killed you on suspicion? No trial, no finding facts, just because you might have been seen going into a restaurant where some 'suspected terrorist' were thought to frequent?

[Lady_Foxfire]

Remind me of how hanging out exclusively with a terrorist organization is only sheer suspicion.

You seem to have a very black-and-white view of this; you're picturing a situation where there is no doubt at all that an American citizen is knowingly collaborating with terrorists, and there is no way for U.S forces to safely capture him alive.

But what if the intelligence we have is wrong? What if the citizen was working with a shell company without realizing that it was a front for a terrorist group? What about a journalist who was doing a story on an anti-American militia? Unless the government is 100% infallible (and if you believe that, I have a unicorn to sell you), there needs to be some kind of oversight and due process to make sure that we don't accidentally execute an innocent person.

[Mytical]

You seem to have a very black-and-white view of this; you're picturing a situation where there is no doubt at all that an American citizen is knowingly collaborating with terrorists, and there is no way for U.S forces to safely capture him alive.

But what if the intelligence we have is wrong? What if the citizen was working with a shell company without realizing that it was a front for a terrorist group? What about a journalist who was doing a story on an anti-American militia? Unless the government is 100% infallible (and if you believe that, I have a unicorn to sell you), there needs to be some kind of oversight and due process to make sure that we don't accidentally execute an innocent person.

Now Lady Foxfire, you know they have never ever been wrong before, nor could possibly be

[Andara Bledin]

Also, how utterly and desperately hypocritical would it be for a place that touts itself as a bastion of freedom and justice to just throw out all of the rules because they happen to be inconvenient?

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

Apparently Freedom includes "Freedom not to follow the rules."

[Greenday]

Apparently Freedom includes "Freedom not to follow the rules."

Because dealing with terrorists follows under normal rules for normal circumstances, right?

Ok Greenday..lets flip this on its ear. You would be ok if they killed you on suspicion? No trial, no finding facts, just because you might have been seen going into a restaurant where some 'suspected terrorist' were thought to frequent?

You should come up with another analogy. Hiding and being caught actively plotting with terrorists makes him obviously guilty. Going out to dinner and happening to be at the same place doesn't show guilt. Now, if I were to go out to dinner every night and sit at a table with the same terrorists every single night, yes, that'd be grounds to call me a terrorist and the gloves can come off.

It blows my mind how much this is being blown out of proportion. One guy gets blown up and he was clearly, without a single possible doubt, was guilty as hell. And suddenly people think the government is going to start nuking Americans everywhere.