Screaming children banned...

[fireheart17]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/n...-1226581462937

In a shopping centre, a child who starts screaming will be banned. The claim is that the screams can be heard as far away as centre management which is supposedly on the other side of the mall.

Personally, the only people I know who could be heard that far away are kids with needs who are having a massive meltdown of some shape or form. Unfortunately it's going to be those kids who are going to get punished, rather than the kids who aren't actually parented.

[Greenday]

"Parenting expert Dr Justin Coulson said it was a reflection on society becoming increasingly intolerant of young children and parents."

Sorry, it's not intolerance. It's no longer putting up with their shit. If parents can't control their kids to shut up, then they deserve to be asked to leave.

[gremcint]

Personally, the only people I know who could be heard that far away are kids with needs who are having a massive meltdown of some shape or form. Unfortunately it's going to be those kids who are going to get punished, rather than the kids who aren't actually parented.

I have come across some rather loud children who aren't special needs just spoiled brats or the parents don't do a thing to stop them.

You know what I love about my store, the ipad display. All of the kids immediately go play with the ipads and don't cause anytrouble at all.

[anakhouri]

But if I am going to a family-oriented place, like a mall, I do expect some children to be there and to make noise. It seems weird for a mall of all places to put such a rule in place. And do they plan to throw people out seconds after the screaming begins? Will they give parents even a few minutes to alleviate the situation or just kick them out immediately? If the child is shrieking with joy instead of rage will they eject them?

If I go to a museum, fancy restaurant or other adult-oriented place, I don't expect children to be there, or I expect them to behave. I do expect such a rule there and if there isn't one I expect a staff member to take care of it if I complain.

There are places where there will be children, and places there will not. If you can't tolerate children, don't go to the places where they are. That's why I don't go to the mall.

[bara]

The claim is that the screams can be heard as far away as centre management which is supposedly on the other side of the mall.

I think this is just hyperbole.

The kids running around and screaming in the food court is probably the real issue at hand. I dont recall any of the kids my age being allowed to get away with crap like this. Especially anyone I was friends with. Making a lot of noise probably isnt the only issue. Kids that are not being properly watched will get into all kinds of trouble. Ive seen kids tip over garbage cans, take peoples stuff, knock over tables including the food on said tables, and one time I saw a really small kid climb into a 'claw' machine that had really big toys in it and got caught inside it.

They managed to get the kid out without breaking the thing, but it was close. In nearly all these cases the parents acted like it was everyone else that was at fault. Instead of banning the kids, how about fining the parents.

[MadMike]

I have come across some rather loud children who aren't special needs just spoiled brats or the parents don't do a thing to stop them.

I had to deal with a few of those at the supermarket job. I was working register the one time, and this woman had a kid in her cart, who was just screaming for the hell of it. Not only did she not do anything to stop it, she actually encouraged him. She just smiled, looked at him, and asked him, "Can you do that any louder?" Which he did.

Another time, I was stacking cases of drinks, when another woman with a kid in her cart wheeled past me. Just as they got right beside me, the little brat screamed right in my ear. I dropped the case that I was picking up, and just kind of went into zombie mode. I didn't say anything, didn't do anything, didn't even pick up the case I dropped, and wandered into the back room. I didn't scream when I got back there like I usually did, I just kind of stood there in a trance. After a few minutes, I was able to compose myself and go back out on the floor.

[Greenday]

But if I am going to a family-oriented place, like a mall, I do expect some children to be there and to make noise. It seems weird for a mall of all places to put such a rule in place. And do they plan to throw people out seconds after the screaming begins? Will they give parents even a few minutes to alleviate the situation or just kick them out immediately? If the child is shrieking with joy instead of rage will they eject them?

So, is there a non-family orientated place where a ton of stores are all located together where I can shop for stuff I need and won't have to listen to little brats the entire time? Since when is a mall a "family-oriented place"? I thought it was a place for adults to go buy stuff.

If I go to a museum, fancy restaurant or other adult-oriented place, I don't expect children to be there, or I expect them to behave. I do expect such a rule there and if there isn't one I expect a staff member to take care of it if I complain.

I agree with fancy restaurants, but why are museums adult-oriented? Museums are places of learning and who needs to learn more than kids? You definitely see a lot more kids in a museum than adults usually.

[telecom_goddess]

I agree with fancy restaurants, but why are museums adult-oriented? Museums are places of learning and who needs to learn more than kids? You definitely see a lot more kids in a museum than adults usually.

I think it would depend on the museum. If it's a high quality one with very expensive pieces in it I wouldn't want kids in there. In fact here they have a children's museum so they can have a place to go that's separate from the regular museums.

[anakhouri]

Malls have a variety of stores including stores meant for children and most have indoor play areas and rental strollers, etc. The mall may have once been an adult-oriented place, but not anymore (at least, not the one near us, others may be different).

If it's possible, your best bet is to go early in the morning or in the evening; when I take Khan out or a treat it is the middle of the day and packed with stay-at-home parents/nannies/sitters and their kids, especially on cold or rainy days.

I only take him for lunch and the play area, I don't try to shop with a toddler. I shop online a lot, LOL.

[ozcatbug]

Wall of Text warning

I hate some of the responses to this that I have heard in the press since this was reported this morning. Parent groups have blasted the shopping centre for their decision. I even read one report by one parent saying that her child's rights to be a child have been ignored. Funny, I didn't think that was a right. Besides what right is it that says the child has the right to run around screaming, annoying other paying customers of the centre, and maybe even knocking people over.

The main issue of the "ban" (and if you read the notice, nowhere does it say it bans children) is that some parents are dumping their children under the age of 5 at the centre play area while they shop. Yes, these children are unsupervised, and when they get bored with the play area they start to play in the food court. The centre manager made the decision that she is concerned that 3 and 4 year old children are running around the food court where there are elderly people with walkers and walking sticks. Can you imagine if an elderly person, or hell any person with mobility issues (you don't have to be old to have a disability as we all know) was knocked down? I don't believe this decision was made lightly.

So while the sign says screaming children will not be tolerated, the message is that unruly children need to be supervised and dealt with by their guardians. Poorly worded, but how else will the message get across.

For some background, I am someone with an invisible disability. It is because of my illness that I applaud this decision. I'm not sure if I have given any information about my medical problems, but I essentially have sound-induced vertigo. It is extremely rare, and has a really long name, but it exists. I have many triggers (though not as much as before my experimental surgeries) and one of them is screaming children. I understand children cry. I understand children have tantrums. I understand children can be children. That is why I always have my ipod in my handbag, as well as some heavy duty earplugs. Usually I only need the earplugs for work as blasting John Williams or Howard Shore music through my ears will give me some relief. But when I have to put the volume of my ipod on maximum (when usually set at quarter volume is enough) and I can still hear a child screaming, then we are going to have problems. At that point all I can do is hang on to something, or end up flat on the floor. I don't pass out and am fully coherent, but my body has no idea which way is up. An attack can last seconds, or even go for days. Haven't had one of those attacks in a while, but a screaming child will usually put me out of action for at least a few minutes, then I will be weak and feeling "fuzzy" for a few hours to a day. If I'm alone, there is no one to tell the offending parent that their child is the cause of my problems. My brother and fathers response is usually to get me the hell out of the situation, however my mother (who has several invisible disabilities and is often unable to help me in my attack phase) turns in to the typical mumma bear. She will turn on the parent, and deity help them if they try to tell mum to butt out or even worse "my child isn't hurting anyone". Believe me it isn't a pretty sight, but when the child settles, and I am able to at least stand, I can usually call mum off. Usually but not always.

Anyway, I have experienced babies and young children that are crying. I know it is usually their only way of expressing themselves, but when your child is screaming, the polite thing to do is take the child out of the situation where they are annoying a lot of people until the child settles, or take the child immediately home until they can behave. No I am not a parent, but the second me or my brother started to cry while mum was shopping she would leave the shop and take us home. Didn't matter if she was in the middle of the grocery shopping or not (she always took her trolley to the front desk and told someone she was leaving it). We learned very quickly that if we wanted to go out we had to behave. So this is an old technique (I'm 36), but my cousins use the same technique with their children, and they have the politest, well-behaved kids I have ever seen. And as for special needs children, my aunty used the same technique with my cousin (currently 38 and autistic) when he was a child. Took him longer to learn, but all the parents agree that they hate seeing screaming children, so why would they subject others to their own screaming children.

I think oblivious parents are the worst. They might be able to block out that their child is screaming blue murder, but the rest of us can hear it quite perfectly, even over full volume Howard Shores wonderful battle scores. And the doting parents that are smiling at their child as she screams on and off for over 10 minutes, no she is not testing her voice, she is testing her boundaries, and you are saying she has none.

I understand that children will be children, and that is why I typically won't sit near a play area, but having your child run around a food court when people are presumably carrying hot food and drinks that could easily burn your child, maybe rein them in a little. I've had hot coffee spillled on me, and it hurts. Kids will be kids, but they also need parents to be parents, and if you can't parent your child, maybe you need to learn that it is you that won't be tolerated.

[bara]

There is a huge difference between children playing and children being loud and obnoxious. I enjoy the sound of children playing, children being loud and obnoxious... not so much.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

Even family oriented places have a right to not have to cater to SCREAMING children. I know of plenty of parents who taught their children what is not acceptable (temper tantrum) and they don't want to deal with other people's children screaming their lungs out.

Yes, not all children are the same, they don't respond to the same techniques. But just because I want to go to a public place where there may be children, doesn't mean that I should be subjected to the ear-piercing shrieks of a child who was just told "No."

[fireheart17]

Hmm....

Here's where my head goes slightly asplodey.

I did a bit of digging and from a number of people who've commented from the area, the shopping centre in question also has a playground. Right near the area where the signs are posted.

Methinks that someone is living in fantasy land where kids will be quietly crawling on a playground without any noise whatsoever.

[gdsunshine]

Being a parent of a toddler, it's hard to keep a child reasonably quiet all the time and especially while playing. They do need the parent there to monitor and remind them to behave. I can't tell you how many times I've been nearly knocked over by kids running around unsupervised in a store or shopping center and I rarely have mobility issues. We decided before my son was even born that we would never be those parents. As of now, my son is VERY well behaved and he's only 2 years old. The only times he gets unruly are when he is with his grandparents or his cousins and I always make sure to remind him and them to behave themselves. No screaming. No running. No hitting/kicking/biting.

It isn't exactly hard to raise a well behaved child. It's also not unreasonable for a public forum to expect patrons with children to keep them in line for the sake of their fellow shoppers. Screaming tantrums do not have to be tolerated by management or the general public and shouldn't be tolerated by the parents either.

[telecom_goddess]

Hmm....

Here's where my head goes slightly asplodey.

I did a bit of digging and from a number of people who've commented from the area, the shopping centre in question also has a playground. Right near the area where the signs are posted.

Methinks that someone is living in fantasy land where kids will be quietly crawling on a playground without any noise whatsoever.

No one expects total silence. But there is absolutely no reason for kids to scream at the top of their lungs either. My kids never did that cause they knew better. I can't stand it when kids do that it hurts my ears and works on my last nerve.