People who abuse the social assistance programs

[Ree]

This is a subject that comes up often over on CS.

There is currently a brand new thread started by a new member.
I figured I would start this in case the debate has to be moved here.

Anyone want to discuss it?

[AFPheonix]

All I have to say is, to the couple that drove up in a pretty new BMW SUV and handed me a medicaid card for their kid: This had better be a foster kid, because otherwise, you are jackasses.

[rahmota]

seriously i will agree. There are quite a few people who are using the system as the safety net that it is supposed to be. Unfortunately there are those that somehow slip through and wind up abusing it, and they are the ones who get the publicity making the honest people look all the worse. Like everyone who is using it is just some lazy money whore wanting to suck off the public teat. In the end though the abusers either goof up and get caught or kharma catches up and things fall so they actually need it. I'm rooting for kharma.

[protege]

Social assistance is a way of life in some parts of rural SW PA. Too many people are on it, and they shouldn't be. Granted, there are some that *need* to be on it, but quite a few do not. These people are able-bodied, yet would rather receive assistance than actually *work* for a living.

Assistance should not be given to those folks. Make the bastards work for it. After all, the *rest* of us have to work for things--why shouldn't they? If they had to work for it, it would free up cash for those who *truly* need it.

[rahmota]

Well about forcing people to work or the whole work thing. I have been unemployed for a year now. I have been out there busting my arse looking for work and unfortunately here in SOhiothere is a very tight job market. I am receiving the whole gamut of rejection slips. You're over qualiied, under qualified, inexperienced, wrongly experienced, no reason given, and my personal favorite is the no answer at all ignore you as if you didnt exist rejection.

I am registered with 4 temp agencies. i have stopped bothering to call them because every week for the past 12 months I have called them and gotten the same answer. We dont have any work for you. Which I dont understand when they are always running ads for people to come in. Which implies they have ork but they dont have work. Arrrggggghhh!

So the whole work thing is irritating unless you do he whole civilian conservatino corps make busy work like back in the thirties.

[Kelly Lynne]

Well about forcing people to work or the whole work thing. I have been unemployed for a year now. I have been out there busting my arse looking for work and unfortunately here in SOhiothere is a very tight job market

...

So the whole work thing is irritating unless you do he whole civilian conservatino corps make busy work like back in the thirties.

My personal take is that anybody receiving social assistance should be either working, actively looking for work, or actively doing things that will help them get a job (taking classes, for example) in order to qualify for those benefits.

It's easy to say "Just get a job" but much harder in some cases to get one that actually pays the bills. However, requiring that you do something to make sure your dependence on the system is temporary might weed out the ones who are taking advantage.

It would also prevent people from not looking for work, not because they're lazy, but because they're being responsible. How's that work? Okay, so, let's say you've got a couple kids, and your spouse leaves you or dies. Money's tight, and this rather sucks, and then you get laid off & end up on public assistance. You're looking for work, but the only thing you're finding is low-paying jobs. While you'd rather work than be a drain, your benefits will go away (or be cut drastically) once you have income, and the job at McDonalds will not pay your bills and pay for a baby-sitter. So, rather than leave your kids unattended to work, you stay home with them and collect public assistance, waiting until they get older.

If you're actually rewarded for working (as in, you have to be working or doing something productive in that direction to get benefits, and you don't lose them because you finally managed to land a minimum wage job), that problem should be reduced.

[rahmota]

I'll agree with you on how there should be consequences if all you are doing is sitting around being a parasite. But that also the system is setup so that people can wind up doing the exact thing that is not good by being good.

In my instance for example. I have been unemployed for a year. But we get the minimum of assistence because I am doing some odd self-work, the farm is giving some income, my wife is bringing in some income and we have a renter. But even with all of that I would not say I am affluent or even very high into middle class. Breaking even would be a good phrase to use. So all I have is the state assisted HMO.

Fortunately long ago my wife and I made arrangements and agreement that at least one of us would be a stay at home parent for our kids sake. But like you said those people who cannot make those arrangments are getting shafted by society in general due to the vicious circle. A mcjob that doesnt even pay the regular bills and then trying to add child care on top of that is not a good solution to the problem.

So maybe a percentage solution. Where a person's job "benefits" are taken into account with the public "benefits" would be a good idea.

[Primer]

I wonder what it would take to have day care run by the public assistance folks so that the people who do have young kids could find work and/or take classes?

I understand that kids at home is a huge hurdle, but if daycare could be provided, then could job searching and/or schooling be mandated in order to receive further assistance??

Just a thought to throw out there...

[rahmota]

Interesting idea. Unfortunately it would cost money, somethign politicians are loathe to spend on poor people. While it may be good PR to say they care about the poor and the working poor and want to help them it doesnt actually fill their election coffers. And the changes to society that would truely have to be done to close the gap between the haves and the have nots would be even less popular.

[rdp78]

When I was a cashier I had few customers using food stamps and that's becuase there was a supermarket on the other side of the shopping center not mention we were in a fairly middle class section. Anyway most of them were nice folks but there were a couple that did give me attitude becuase they went over their limit and told me I didn't know what I was doing or something like it (yeah, but at least I'm working for my money which I really wanted to say). Anyway there was a one woman who used her food stamp card and then brought a remote control truck that was 50 bucks with cash. I didn't say anything and that she was with a friend who I think actually brought.

Anyway I do think that government assistance should be a hand up not a hand out and encouraging people to find a job by having classes, providing daycare, etc. It shouldn't be for people who don't want to work and don't even bother to find a job I mean they need a reality check. I mean there are agencies that help people find jobs and businesses like the Goodwill that train people.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Plus, I don't want to open up a can of worms but there's a big difference between a struggling woman who's partner left her holding the baby and a parasite who just pops out babies like she's never heard of the pill. Sometimes the communist in me cries out for forced sterilisation. -__- Those people must be a huge drain on welfare resources, and it's the good people who for whatever reason can't work who get screwed.

[rdp78]

Well, I should realize every situation is different as to why people use government assistance. I wasn't trying to be harsh yes people might face with unexpected death of their partner or even split from them and that person was the breadwinner so they need find a way to put food on the table. Those situations are more short term and there are other situations where a person just needs help while they get back on their feet. Of course, there are long term situations where a person just can't work becuase of illness or disablity.

Now there are other parasites other then the girls that pop out babies and need to be sterilize. There are the ones who have worked but have bad attitudes and so they ussually don't last long at any job they do. There are people who make any excuse not to find a job or don't want a low paying job. Of course, there are people who grew up on welfare and so they continue the family tradition.

[rahmota]

Thats why it gets me when i hear about some program that trys to be a one size fits all "solution" to the public assistence "problem". Much of the problems with public assistence is that there are too many ways to fall into the need for help and not enough ways to get out of the pit. Sometime speople can wind up in a death spiral and have little if any hope out.

Personally I blame capitalism, trickle down theory , current societal attitudes and the unfair and uneven distribution of the means and access to wealth. Companies getting to throw people away so they can go overseas and use cheap labor, among the various other cost cutting methods used. Thereby making it harder for people to have a decent job to pay their bills and keep themselves out of public assitence. the increase of low paying mcjobs with no benefits and little pay. *sigh*

[SuperDan]

Random theory:

Within 15 days of acquiring public assistance, each person over 18 and not currently in high school has to do one of the following:

• Acquire a job of 35 hours per week or more (at any pay rate)
• Enroll in classes at an accredited university for 6-11 credit hours each regular semester and acquire a job at any pay rate of 20-30 hours per week. A 2.0 GPA or better in school is required.
• Enroll in classes at an accredited university for 12 credits or more each regular semester and acquire a job at any pay rate of 10-18 hours per week. A 2.0 GPA or better is required and the student must be enrolled in a program working toward a bachelor's degree.

If these conditions are not met, all assistance is to cease immediately. This includes not only the welfare checks, but also Section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid, free school lunch, and the like.

Exceptions may be granted for one parent of a child under pre-K age, as well as people with documented permanent disabilities. All exceptions are to be approved by a majority vote by a group consisting of the family's case worker, the case worker's immediate supervisor, and a member of the state board responsible for public assitance.

Also, the children in these families will be eligible for subsidized daycare and pre-K programs. Fees for these programs, as well as housing and medicaid, will be on a sliding scale based on income of the whole family.

As long as all family members continue to meet eligibility guidelines, assistance shall continue until the family as a whole can meet and maintain a living wage on their own, or in the case that a member of the family leaves the household, until he can meet a living wage on his own and the remainder of the household can meet a living wage amongst themselves.

If a family fails to meet these requirements at any time, such as loss of a job or a drop in GPA or school credits below minimum, they have 15 days to rectify the situation or adjust to meet one of the other eligibility requirements, or they find themselves flat out on their asses.

Yes, I know this will never happen, but I can dream, right?

[Rapscallion]

While I applaud the intentions here, I have a problem with the state effectively saying that stupid people shouldn't be allowed to live. Take away their sustenance, which is what cutting off aid will do, is going to kill people. People will turn to crime, hence hurting the honest people.

Rapscallion