People who abuse the social assistance programs

[SuperDan]

Actually, IMO this scheme would reflect the putting forward of at least a minimal effort to improve yourself. Exceptions as I said would be made for those who are physically unable to do work as well as for parents with extremely young children. These exceptions would naturally also apply to the extremely cognitively disabled. Most universities over here, if they don't like getting sued for being in violation of the ADA, will work their asses off to accommodate learning disabilities of all sorts, as well as other physical disabilities such as blindness or deafness that would hinder learning under normal university circumstances. And of course, if university just isn't your thing, how hard is it really to stand behind a retail counter for 35 hours a week? My hiring manager usually does a good job of proving that any idiot off the street can work for our company, but that's another thread...

Speaking as someone who has a GPA below 2.0 at two different schools (but still scores extremely high on aptitude and IQ tests), I can say that you pretty much have to be trying to suck to have less than a 2.0, and there are plenty of warning signs that tell you it's a pretty good idea to change your program to one more suitable to you. Hell, most universities offer tests at low or no cost to figure out what programs they offer would be best suited to you.

The bottom line here is if you have no desire to do anything other than freeload off of my tax dollars, I have no desire to let you freeload off of my tax dollars.

[rahmota]

Well again in theory it is a good idea to try and get people to be self sufficient and improving themselves I do have a couple of problems with your suggestions.

1) The timeframe available. I have been looking for a job for a little over a year now. Fortunately I am not quite in a make or break position about jobs so the inability to find one who agrees to hire me is not a major issue. Annnoying as hell as I dont see why I havent been hired but thats another topic altogether.

But suffice to say it is not always easy for everyone to go out and get a job within a month or so , much less within 15 days. Another one of those one size fits all problems I mentioned.

Also I live 10 miles from the nearest population center of any size. 4 miles from the nearest general store. But it is family run so if you are not related to them then you dont have a job. Otherwise within a 5 mile radius it is farms. To get to the nearest big city which in my case is cincinnati it is a 25-30 mile drive one way. See the problem with using the big brush to paint everyone like that?

2) Colleges are also another problem. The local community college only has enrollment for classes 4 times a year. The local jobs program through the ODJFS (welfare/unemployment) has only so many slots available. The local union apprenticeship program closed up when the factory left town. So educational programs are extremly limited if not unavailable. SO again the one size fits all approach doesnt work.

3) involving the governmental people you mentioned would be problematic and make thigns stretch out even longer than they already do. You are talking about people who may have a dozen or more families to deal with in some areas. They do not/may not have the luxury of being able to spend the kind of time it would take to have meetings about each and every individual case in their control district. The ODJFS office for highland county (Using my home county) for example services an entire county that according to the last census has a population of almost 30k people. Not everyone is on the welfare roll I know but still one office to deal with an entire county. Imagine if say 10% for a nice round number of those people are on the lists. Thats 3000 people for one office to deal with. Now the district manager above them has to deal with several different counties offices. And above them at the state level those people have to deal with the various district offices under them

Nice idea. I'd like to see something more equitable and hand up not handout as well but it has to be one that is manageable and fair for everyone. As well as flexible to deal with the various situations

Maybve some sort of social credit would be a good thing in my mind. Either that or a try at true hippie communism, not the soviet style communism.

[Rubystars]

I don't understand why people don't use food stamps to buy staple foods like rice, cereal, milk, cheese, bread, beans, meats, soups, produce, etc. They almost always buy a lot of junk, like sodas and candy and chips and cookies.

[Rapscallion]

The sensible people who use food stamps do. We just remember the ones who abuse the system.

Rapscallion

[Rubystars]

.

Sometimes the ones who consistently use it for food actually stand out more, but it is true that people tend to remember the bad more than the good.

[rahmota]

I'll agree the ones who abuse it are usually the ones who are the most remembered.

[SongsOfDragons]

I get NHS assistance because I'm epileptic and require a repeat prescription. Hence I don't have to pay for my meds. Last time I went to pick them up, some person behind me saw my card and started complaining loudly about how I, a 20-year-old student, shouldn't be allwed to have exemptions.

[fireheart17]

We don't have food stamps in Australia, but the major supermarkets will allow financial assistance vouchers if needed (i.e. ones that are handed down by the government). Some of them will buy decent things that they actually need, others will buy about half of what they actually need and spend the remainder on junk. I've had a few customers do that at work and while I don't make comments (obviously), I'm glad that they impose limits.

On the other hand, those that abuse the welfare systems need to be stopped.

[Kyree]

Why can't they make it against the rules to buy anything but the essentials with Food stamps? Or to take cash out?

[Seshat]

Within 15 days of acquiring public assistance, each person over 18 and not currently in high school has to do one of the following:

Nice in theory, impossible in practice: for reasons given by other people.

A more practical version is done in Aussieland:

* You are expected to be disabled, aged, a student, a carer of a disabled person, or looking for work, to get assistance.

* If you are disabled, but your doctor thinks you capable of working if you get the right support, you can use one of the government agencies set up for the purpose to try to get work you can do; and you can get the support.
However, as long as you and the agency are trying, you keep the pension. They don't require success, just the attempt.
An employer who employs a disabled person gets an allowance to use for things like special seating, modifying the staff loo, or whatever is needed.

* If you're a student, you can get assistance for books, travel expenses, study materials, and fees. The 'student' classification includes apprenticeships - the goverment doesn't care whether you're going to be a surgeon or a plumber, 'cause we need both.

* If you're unemployed (or disabled-trying-to-work) & moving from a place with fewer jobs to a place with more jobs, you can get financial assistance to move.

* If you're unemployed, you have to show evidence of applying for jobs. You also attend a meeting with an employment counsellor every so often, who helps you enter life skills programs, training programs, or whatever other programs you and she think will help you get work/cope with your life.

* If you're unemployed (or otherwise low-income) and have a problem (drug use, history of being abused, whatever), rehab or treatment or whatever other programs are likely to help you are either free or extremely heavily subsidised. Some are subsidised by charities rather than the government, but the employment counsellors or family doctors can refer you to any of them.

* Everyone with an income less than $X/annum gets certain types of assistance. There is a kind of sliding scale for things like the 'health care card' and 'family allowance'.
Before they did this, if you were on a pension and then got a job, you could suddenly end up with effectively less real income. There were plenty of people who literally couldn't afford to work.
The charities and the government agencies responsible worked on it, and now you get certain assistances based on total income level, not on your employment status.

It's not a perfect system, but it's better than it was twenty years ago, and we're still working on improving it.

[AdminAssistant]

That sounds like a great system, Seshat.

In SuperDan's plan...I don't like the idea of college being used as a 'dumping ground'. Not everyone needs to or should go to college - it's not for everyone. As Seshat said, we need surgeons and we need plumbers. And most universities in the US are over-enrolled as it is, because state funding is based on enrollment numbers.

[fireheart17]

* If you're a student, you can get assistance for books, travel expenses, study materials, and fees. The 'student' classification includes apprenticeships - the goverment doesn't care whether you're going to be a surgeon or a plumber, 'cause we need both.

On top of that, the only major problem is that with the student allowances, they stop when you turn 21, but the senior student allowance isn't paid until the age of 25. There's also the consideration that they don't consider you "independent" until 25...it boggles me.

MOD EDIT - Please do not quote entire post.