Arrested for not paying a fine...

[Rageaholic]

that you never recieved.

I was told a story about someone who was pulled over by a cop for some traffic violation. The officer said that she'd get the ticket in the mail, but it never showed up. A few month later, there was a warrent out for her arrest because she never paid the fine, a fine that she wasn't able to pay becase she never recieved it in the mail. She explained this, but they didn't care, it was her word against there's. They carted her off to jail until her husband bailed her out.

The thing is, I don't think this is too uncommon. I've heard of other instances of this kind of crap and actually know someone who was arrested for not showing up to a court date that they never recieved in the mail. All of these stories shared a common theme, a minor offense, fine or court date that never shows up in the mail, and no communication until the cops decide to arrest the person and basically hold them hostage for money.

On what planet is this fair?

[Aethian]

There are also the times that the address is wrong in the system. She knew she had a fine coming to her so why hadn't she questioned it before?

You should see how many of these tickets I see on post cards in the mail. The first one comes out and get we're told the person doesn't live there so we send it through forwarding. Oops there is no forward so the mail piece goes back to the court to say that we don't know where this person is, by this time usually 2 weeks will have passed unless the place we thought they lived held onto the piece longer. The court will usually note it I the system but because the system is automated the next notice may have already gone out.

Bad addresses can come from the DMV's office having a glitch or it could come from a glitch when the name was brought up in the system.

[BlaqueKatt]

that you never recieved. <snip> I've heard of other instances of this kind of crap and actually know someone who was arrested for not showing up to a court date that they never recieved in the mail. All of these stories shared a common theme, a minor offense, fine or court date that never shows up in the mail, and no communication until the cops decide to arrest the person and basically hold them hostage for money.

On what planet is this fair?

If you know your electric bill is due, but the paper copy gets lost do you now not owe the bill? Same thing, if you KNOW you have anything going on with the courts the by mail reminder is a courtesy, you should be taking care of your business, not relying on some other entity, that has no real concern in the matter to do it for you.

[crashhelmet]

If you know your electric bill is due, but the paper copy gets lost do you now not owe the bill? Same thing, if you KNOW you have anything going on with the courts the by mail reminder is a courtesy, you should be taking care of your business, not relying on some other entity, that has no real concern in the matter to do it for you.

This is honestly the best analogy that can be used to explain this.

A couple of years ago, I got cited for speeding. I went down to the courthouse on my scheduled day to fight it and plead not guilty. There was a problem with the system at the courthouse that day and they were supposed to mail me a court date. I never got it and eventually forgot all about it. I got pulled over back in January for a tail light being out and that's when I learned I had a bench warrant out for my arrest for "Failure to Appear" after almost 2 years. Thankfully, the cop didn't arrest me and when I went to court to show my tail light had been fixed, I took care of the fine on the warrant. it went from a $140 fine to a $390 fine.

But as BlaqueKatt said, it's my fault for not following up on it.

[Rageaholic]

I don't agree with that. Paying for an electric bill is paying for services. Paying a fine is just some revenue boosting bullshit. If they're going to extort you for money, you'd think there would be a better attempt to communicate between parties. But in these cases, there was no communication until they decided "oops he or she didn't pay such and such fine from several months or years ago, lets take them off to jail!".

It's bullshit, plain and simple. The cops choose a half ass way to communicate with people and then when it fails, they blame you. Stunts like this are why I'm not overly fond of the police.

[BrenDAnn]

Uh huh...And this thread may as well be over, because, judging by that last post, nothing anyone here can say will change your mind. The OP reminds me of a former coworker of mine who A) knew she had fines out for her in another county B) either forgot them or just plain didn't pay them, then C) parked where she shouldn't have, got caught, got hauled off on a warrant, and ended up in jail. She knew she had fines coming. She was the one who didn't pay them, as it was her responsibility to do. Did I feel sorry for her? No. Not at all. I just shook my head and moved on.

[Aethian]

Paying a fine is just some revenue boosting bullshit.

So those who speed should be allowed to do so with no consequences? What about those who block fire hydrants? The ones who park in a no parking area? How about those that decide to drive with no license? Or I know how about one that manages all of those while being intoxicated?

[Greenday]

Paying for an electric bill is paying for services. Paying a fine is just some revenue boosting bullshit.

Oh, so the police aren't services? If your local bank is being robbed, remind me who it is that'd come to stop the robbers? Or if some drunk is driving around town, swerving all over the place, who stops them? An epidemic of burglaries begins to occur, who are the people that track the thieves down and throw them in jail? Pretty sure those are all service provided to you by the police. If you don't want fines, that's okay. They can just jack up your taxes, I'm sure everyone will be okay with that. I'd personally prefer that people breaking the law pay a larger share than me.

[MrsEclipse]

The thing is, with an electric bill it's routine enough that if one doesn't come in the mail, you already know where it's going and about how much it is. If you don't normally get fines, I wouldn't know who to talk to if something didn't show or even how long I was supposed to wait. I'm used to things that "we'll send in the mail" taking months to be processed and arrive.

I'm not claiming she had the same ignorance-- I'm actually trying to use this thread as a learning experience. What are you supposed to do when a ticket doesn't come, and how long should you wait before taking initiative?

[protege]

So those who speed should be allowed to do so with no consequences?

There's a big difference in getting pulled over for doing 90mph in a school zone...and getting busted for 30 in a 25. I wouldn't know about the former...but I do know about the latter. My borough's police department has nothing better to do than pull people over for a few miles over. It's not about "safety" but "revenue." Think about it, why does the speed limit on the main road leading into the borough drop from 40 to 35? It's not because of traffic increases, but because it's an easy money grab. Think about it, if it was about safety, why would the cops be so sneaky about it? They wouldn't be hiding behind billboards or between buildings, and they wouldn't have bought an entire fleet of black sedans. Nor would they have petitioned the borough council to drop the speed limit through the area.

As to the other things--blocking a hydrant, not having a license, parking in a no-parking area, they should be dealt with. Here, if you decide to park in a yellow (or red) zone, you're an idiot. Same if you park in a blue zone (handicapped spot) and don't have the placard or tag. All of those areas have warning signs--if you ignore them, you deserve the fine.

The problem that I have with those fines, is how they're handled. Think about it, what if you don't have the car? Suppose one of your relatives uses your vehicle, chooses to park in a no-parking area, and gets busted. Said relative then throws away the ticket. Since it's your vehicle, you get the threatening note from the borough/township/city, and you're on the hook for it. That's why you can't always use the power bill analogy. You know that you owe money to the utility company...but might have a legit reason for not knowing that you're on the hook for a fine.

Then there are cases like the time my dad got a ticket some years back in Philadelphia. At the time, that city was so far behind in enforcing the fines, that my uncle told him not to bother with it. He didn't, and a year later (seriously!) he got a nasty note threatening him with arrest and more fines. Dad's reaction? "Good luck with that." In the year it took them to send him the letter, the car involved had been sold, the license plate deactivated (PA had gone from yellow plates to blue ones), and they never did get their money.

But back to lack of communication. I know for a fact that the utility companies send out bills every month. I also know that it's possible to get online and pay them...but to also check how much you owe. So there's really no excuse in not paying your bills. If you don't pay your balance each month, it's simply tacked onto the next month. But, it's not like you can go to www.east_buttfuck_pa_police_dept.gov to see if you owe anything. I'd be surprised if departments actually included that on their websites! I know that my borough doesn't! No wonder then that people forget to get their business taken care of, especially if there's a delay in getting the paperwork out.

I think that's the point that the OP was making.

[Rageaholic]

But back to lack of communication. I know for a fact that the utility companies send out bills every month. I also know that it's possible to get online and pay them...but to also check how much you owe. So there's really no excuse in not paying your bills. If you don't pay your balance each month, it's simply tacked onto the next month. But, it's not like you can go to www.east_buttfuck_pa_police_dept.gov to see if you owe anything. I'd be surprised if departments actually included that on their websites! I know that my borough doesn't! No wonder then that people forget to get their business taken care of, especially if there's a delay in getting the paperwork out.

I think that's the point that the OP was making.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. When you're given a ticket, you're not even told how much you have to pay, just that you have a ticket. Why don't they put how much you have to pay on the ticket? Who knows, but you'd think they would want you to know that.

And no, it shouldn't be mine or anyone elses responsibility to follow up on it when they could have communicated this from the get go. Even as a lawabiding citizen who's never done drugs and has no record (despite my anti conservative views on here, I'm pretty mellow IRL), I won't kiss their ass to find out when they could have told me from the get go.

[BlaqueKatt]

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. When you're given a ticket, you're not even told how much you have to pay, just that you have a ticket. Why don't they put how much you have to pay on the ticket? Who knows, but you'd think they would want you to know that.

Every traffic citation I've ever viewed has two options, and the person cited picks:
Forfeiture amount of $x.
Court date to attempt to reduce the forfeiture amount.

So yes you KNOW you have a court date(you chose that option), and can call the clerk of courts for the docket number. There is even a special number for traffic court in the phone book(which is why it's actually useful to have one when they put them out for free every year, but no one ever thinks they need them-they rely too much on the internet, which is not infallible)

and hey, here's a perfect example of that, If you received your Citation in person (generally signed by Defendant), turn it over to find instructions for your response and follow them carefully. Nothing further will be mailed by the court unless you fail to respond, at which time a Warrant will be issued for your arrest.

[Ginger Tea]

I have no idea if this is the case, this is just hypothetical
What if you go to your nearest precinct and then find out they don't have it on file cos the officer who ticketed you works at a different precinct and neither you nor they know which one that is.

Granted one would hope in this day and age of information sharing that this should not be the case, but sometimes little things you think would be a given just arn't.

edit: post was not up when I started mine.

So yes you KNOW you have a court date(you chose that option), and can call the clerk of courts for the docket number. There is even a special number for traffic court in the phone book(which is why it's actually useful to have one when they put them out for free every year, but no one ever thinks they need them-they rely too much on the internet, which is not infallible)

well as I have never seen a parking ticket in the UK let alone the States, I have no idea what is on them, but that kinda answers my question.

[Greenday]

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. When you're given a ticket, you're not even told how much you have to pay, just that you have a ticket. Why don't they put how much you have to pay on the ticket? Who knows, but you'd think they would want you to know that.

And no, it shouldn't be mine or anyone elses responsibility to follow up on it when they could have communicated this from the get go. Even as a lawabiding citizen who's never done drugs and has no record (despite my anti conservative views on here, I'm pretty mellow IRL), I won't kiss their ass to find out when they could have told me from the get go.

God forbid people have to take personal responsibility for their foul ups! How terrible!

[protege]

Every traffic citation I've ever viewed has two options, and the person cited picks:
Forfeiture amount of $x.
Court date to attempt to reduce the forfeiture amount.

Yep, I forgot to mention that. The tickets I've received, always have that info on there. Tickets are just stock forms with the amounts, dates, and license plate info written in by hand. With that said, there's no way someone cannot know how much they're on the hook for.

However, I can see one problem with mailing in your payment. When you pay for a parking ticket or minor traffic citation, you usually don't get a receipt. The *exception* (at least here), is if you pay up on a speeding fine. You'll get a nasty note from whatever jurisdiction listing the paid fine and any points you might have received. But otherwise, you don't get a receipt.

Suppose that the payment gets lost in the mail, delayed, or payment not clearing? The offender in question might just assume that it's taken care of, and get on with their life. Then they're in for a shocker!