I'm getting really sick and tired of this shit

[crashhelmet]

So what happens if a couple of 15 year olds have sex in CA or NV? Are they both guilty of a felony?

According to the law, yes, although I doubt prosecutors would move to press charges. Any filed would probably be due to an overzealous parent.

[Andara Bledin]

I graduated high school in 1989. I knew (despite not caring one whit) what the age of consent was at that time. It was just one of those things that was out there.

Then again, I knew it was wrong for older kids to have sex with younger kids when I was a younger kid, which is when I had sex for the first time. All of us involved hid it because we knew that if anybody found out, we would, all of us, be in dire trouble, not the least of which was the wrath of our parents.

Kids these days have zero excuse. Wrong is wrong, and unless they're sociopaths, they can be taught the difference. And even sociopaths know how to not do things they've been told are wrong, so that's no excuse, either.

[crashhelmet]

I graduated high school in 1989. I knew (despite not caring one whit) what the age of consent was at that time. It was just one of those things that was out there.

Then again, I knew it was wrong for older kids to have sex with younger kids when I was a younger kid, which is when I had sex for the first time. All of us involved hid it because we knew that if anybody found out, we would, all of us, be in dire trouble, not the least of which was the wrath of our parents.

Kids these days have zero excuse. Wrong is wrong, and unless they're sociopaths, they can be taught the difference. And even sociopaths know how to not do things they've been told are wrong, so that's no excuse, either.

You can teach them all you want, but there is a never ending battle between self-discipline and peer pressure. Especially amongst teens trying hard to fit in and be liked.

[Duelist925]

You can teach them all you want, but there is a never ending battle between self-discipline and peer pressure. Especially amongst teens trying hard to fit in and be liked.

Toss in "Raging fuckton of hormones" to the mix.

Though...seriously. 13? How the hell did that not twinge their "Maybe this is fucked up" radar?

[crashhelmet]

Toss in "Raging fuckton of hormones" to the mix.

Though...seriously. 13? How the hell did that not twinge their "Maybe this is fucked up" radar?

Not trying to justify it in anyway, but in the olden days, that was the age that kids were being married off. Once they were capable of breeding, they were eligible to be sold off for dowries, alliances, and other political reasons.

If we still lived in a time where this took place, would it still be fucked up?

[Kheldarson]

If you were in the nobility, no, it wouldn't have been a problem.

Marriageable age in Western civ in the olden days for the normal folk was still closer to the 20s (both parties had to be able to help support the new household).

[Andara Bledin]

If we still lived in a time where this took place, would it still be fucked up?

When you only lived to 40, if you were lucky, things are different. And that was if you were part of the 70% that even reached adulthood.

Apples to oranges and utterly irrelevant to anyone that doesn't live in "the olden days."

[crashhelmet]

When you only lived to 40, if you were lucky, things are different. And that was if you were part of the 70% that even reached adulthood.

Apples to oranges and utterly irrelevant to anyone that doesn't live in "the olden days."

Their mortality rate had nothing to do with it and is a fallacious argument.

My point is that the laws and morals of society have made it taboo. They have kept them as "children" while they are biologically capable of creating them and doing so would be "what Mother Nature intended."

I'm not saying I support teenage pregnancy. I'm all for making them concentrate on education and maturing further before they take on that huge role. What I'm saying is that it's "fucked up" because society made it so.

The day may come when we revert to these "olden days." Then again, the time may come when we raise that age of consent and "adulthood" to 21 and then 18, 19, and even 20 becomes "fucked up."

[Andara Bledin]

Their mortality rate had nothing to do with it and is a fallacious argument.

The mortality rate had everything to do with it, actually.

Since we've extended our lives and most babies live to adulthood, society has deemed that children should be allowed to be children for longer, with all of the privileges and loss of the same that come with being considered "not an adult." Plus, we no longer need to pump out babies by the dozen in the hopes that a few will survive long enough to have babies of their own.

And, regardless of any of that, we still aren't in the "olden days." So it really doesn't matter one whit what happened back them and whether or not it was moral or otherwise. Society has deemed it as wrong for this era, and this is the era that everybody has been raised in.

[Duelist925]

Their mortality rate had nothing to do with it and is a fallacious argument.

My point is that the laws and morals of society have made it taboo. They have kept them as "children" while they are biologically capable of creating them and doing so would be "what Mother Nature intended."

I'm not saying I support teenage pregnancy. I'm all for making them concentrate on education and maturing further before they take on that huge role. What I'm saying is that it's "fucked up" because society made it so.

The day may come when we revert to these "olden days." Then again, the time may come when we raise that age of consent and "adulthood" to 21 and then 18, 19, and even 20 becomes "fucked up."

To build a bit on what Andara's already stated, just because something is biologically capable does not mean it is biologically wise. Pregnancy takes a massive toll on a womans body, and even more so on one as undeveloped as a 13 year old girls.

And that isn't even going into their mental state. There is not a 13 year old girl alive mature enough to enter into a sexual relationship, especially not with someone so much older.

[Kheldarson]

Well, to be fair, we've kind of done that to ourselves.

Major difference between then and now: Kids weren't "kids". They were adults waiting to happen.

Boys and girls were pretty much constantly trained towards their adult jobs. And, of course, for girls, that was house and family. So a girl of 13 was far more prepared during that time for a coming child.

Although, to be fair, again, marrying that young was still a rare thing and mostly concentrated towards the nobility who were much more vested in maintaining family lines for political and economic reasons. And even among nobility, at 12 or 13, you'd probably be just entering into an engagement, not a marriage.

Among peasantry, the marriage age was much older for the fact that you had two people who both had to contribute to the family.

[Ginger Tea]

Boys and girls were pretty much constantly trained towards their adult jobs. And, of course, for girls, that was house and family. So a girl of 13 was far more prepared during that time for a coming child.

Years ago (max 2 after the first big brother in the UK) the BBC or C4 took a dozzen or so families and got them to reinact life in the stoneage, the adults got into it and enjoyed what they were doing.
The children however were removed from their TV's video games and sports and thrust into an alien concept and did not adjust well, when expected to help tend the crops or gather food they were reluctant, yet in reality they would have been doing this from almost the time they could walk.

[Gravekeeper]

Although, to be fair, again, marrying that young was still a rare thing and mostly concentrated towards the nobility who were much more vested in maintaining family lines for political and economic reasons. And even among nobility, at 12 or 13, you'd probably be just entering into an engagement, not a marriage.

It really wasn't, it seems. Even in early American colonies you could get married off at like 9. Ironically enough it was the Romans that were the conservative ones about it. While a lot of Europe was all over the place.

Historically speaking, the laws in question are very recent.

[Kheldarson]

It really wasn't, it seems. Even in early American colonies you could get married off at like 9. Ironically enough it was the Romans that were the conservative ones about it. While a lot of Europe was all over the place.

Historically speaking, the laws in question are very recent.

I bow to more recent research.

Most of mine came from a class lecture during college

Still, the raising of children definitely changed between then and now. Like I said, we expect kids to have this period of freedom and innocence before becoming adults. They didn't have that luxury back then.