Man thrown out of hospital when trying to stay by his gay husbands bedside

[smileyeagle1021]

It was and remains the most shameful thing I've ever done

Repeat after me, it is not your fault that Clinton was a spineless dick who signed DOMA into law puting you in that position in the first place. It is not your fault that Republicans are unfeeling douchebags who believe their Christ commanded to hate and discriminate.

[Panacea]

At least you weren't doing it to be mean, and I'm sure the man understood that.

He didn't, not really. We were in California, which is pretty accepting of gays and lesbians. But no, I wasn't doing it to be mean.

Repeat after me, it is not your fault that Clinton was a spineless dick who signed DOMA into law puting you in that position in the first place. It is not your fault that Republicans are unfeeling douchebags who believe their Christ commanded to hate and discriminate.

I've stood up plenty of times against the rules when I thought they were wrong. I didn't this time.

But thank you. You are very kind to say so. I don't know that we'll see a world totally accepting of gays and lesbians in my lifetime. But I sure hope so. I am so done with the way we shatter other people's lives based on prejudices.

Guess I'm an optimist.

[BlaqueKatt]

A POA is not a "get out of having to behave" document.

However, I really don't think that was the case in this instance

true especially with this gem:

“He didn’t want his brother in the room, so he asked his brother to leave. He [the brother] wasn’t calming down,” even after Roger was taken away in handcuffs.

So the brother was still being beligerant and allowed to stay, I have also found two more articles it seems the brother wanted to ruin the couple's vacation(apparently they've done so in the past as well) and ambushed Allen at his home with 5 police officers, who decided that due to his "tiredness" from being diabetic, he was "obviously suicidal, and a danger to himself".

Daughter's full account, including background.

second more bullet pointed article

Lee basically admitted that he intentionally tried to intervene in Allen’s medical care and also insisted that Roger should have been the one to leave the hospital room, even though he’s the one with Allen’s power of attorney.

Also the nurse disregarded the patient's wishes, he asked that his brother be removed and his husband be allowed to stay.

[s_stabeler]

new information from BlaqueKatt's link- Lee, the brother who got Roger thrown out, has admitted that he deliberately intervened in Roger's medical care despite knowing of the POA. Ergo, it is increasingly looking like Amanda Brown's account of events is correct. If so, I hope some people spend time in jail for this.

[Panacea]

new information from BlaqueKatt's link- Lee, the brother who got Roger thrown out, has admitted that he deliberately intervened in Roger's medical care despite knowing of the POA. Ergo, it is increasingly looking like Amanda Brown's account of events is correct. If so, I hope some people spend time in jail for this.

Well . . . sort of. I listened to the interviews with Roger and Lee. Lee claims that he didn't try to force his brother to the hospital, but that the police and paramedics made the decision.

Hole in his statement: who called the cops and the medics?

Answer: Lee did. Roger makes a good point in that as Allen's husband he should have been consulted first about any decision to hospitalize Allen. Lee did not do this.

The irony here, is based off the daugher Amanda's own accounts of what happened, Allen may really needed to have been hospitalized. I'm not liking the symptoms she describes: they sound a lot like diabetic ketoacidosis. I realize the family knows this guy much better than I do. But sometimes families get so acclimated to the usual symptoms that they miss it when those symptoms are actually the symptoms of another problem. I doubt the hospital would have kept Allen in the hospital so long if something weren't really wrong, and nothing could have kept Allen from leaving on his own accord if he really wanted to.

So I'm not so sure the medics made the wrong call to transport him. In emergencies they are required to transport to the closest receiving facility, which may be the hospital Allen only uses for ECT.

Which sucks for Allen. However, this does NOT relieve the hospital of its duty to respect Allen's wishes, and I still haven't heard anything that makes me think the hospital didn't handle it well.

Roger claims he was asked to "prove the relationship" by the hospital. He may have a point depending on what was actually asked for. If it was a copy of the POA, then he's wrong to say Allen's rights were violated. When family disputes in hospital settings occur, it is appropriate for the hospital to ask the person claiming POA supply proof of this, because POA's change all the time. But Lee should then have been asked for one as well.

If Roger was being asked to prove the marriage, then the hospital did violate Allen's rights because that's an irrelevant point if Roger has a POA, and the hospital knows damn well gay marriage and civil unions are not lawful in Missouri, and also that Obama has directed hospitals getting federal funds (basically all hospitals, since no hospital can survive without Medicare and Medicaid) treat same sex couples as any other couple, and no other couple would be asked to produce a marriage certificate.

[s_stabeler]

Panacea, there is one big problem. St Luke's ( his usual hospital) is in the same town. Research Medical Center is in Kansas City, St. Luke's Hospital is in Lee's Summit, like Allen's home

not to mention, Diabetic Ketoacidosis would explain the paramedics, but not the police. IIRC, Allen was taken to hospital on a 72-hour psychatric hold, under the belief he was suicidal, NOT due to a medical condition. Sure, it may ahve turned out there actualyl was something wrong, but faking Allen being suicidal? just before he was due to go on holiday? when the family has tried to screw with their vacations together before? that screams to me that it was an attempt to prevent the vacation, not any actual concern that something was wrong.

in short, I am skeptical that the original hospitalization was without it's own issues. It looks to me like he was taken to a more distant hospital, albeit I can see why (I'm guessing he was taken to Research Medical Center because it was supposed to be a psychiatric issue, St Luke's probably isn't a psychiatric hospital. Therefore, no fault to the police and paramedics for where they transported him, but fault to Lee for lying about a psychiatric issue)

[Kheldarson]

(I'm guessing he was taken to Research Medical Center because it was supposed to be a psychiatric issue, St Luke's probably isn't a psychiatric hospital. Therefore, no fault to the police and paramedics for where they transported him, but fault to Lee for lying about a psychiatric issue)

That's pretty much why he was taken there. He was supposedly suicidal and had a history of psychiatric issues for which he was getting treated for at RMC. Which is part of why I can understand Roger's frustration. They had their POA on file.

However, I do understand Panacea's point about POA's changing and needing to have it on hand all the time. But I'm sure Roger, in his rush, forgot it, but didn't want to leave his partner to only his brother's care, given that Lee seems to have a history of interference.

[Andara Bledin]

Methinks that it's time for a restraining order.

[HYHYBT]

Well . . . sort of. I listened to the interviews with Roger and Lee. Lee claims that he didn't try to force his brother to the hospital, but that the police and paramedics made the decision.

Hole in his statement: who called the cops and the medics?

How is that a hole? You don't need to have a POA or any legal connection at all to someone to call for help if they seem to be having a medical emergency. I'm about to go to Walmart. So far as I know, I won't see anyone I know while there. But if I drop over I hope *somebody* calls 911, and that when the paramedics or whoever show up they take care of me as they see fit until next of kin can be found, rather than leaving me there on the floor of frozen foods while they guess at who that might be or try to reach someone whose ringer is still off from church this morning.

[lordlundar]

Methinks that it's time for a restraining order.

I would like to point out that they are a gay couple who would be trying to get a restraining order against a largely religious family in a state that isn't known for being the most friendly to homosexual relationships.

There are certainly other states with worse odds, but I'd still rank your idea just slightly above a snowball's odds of survival in the Sahara. (current "spring" notwithstanding)

[Panacea]

Panacea, there is one big problem. St Luke's ( his usual hospital) is in the same town. Research Medical Center is in Kansas City, St. Luke's Hospital is in Lee's Summit, like Allen's home

Then he still should have been taken to St. Lukes, if that was the closest receiving hospital. What I meant in regards to that was that I was unsure which was which , and if RMC was closest the medics were right to take him there. But if not, then St. Lukes is where they should have gone regardless of what the chief complaint was . . . unless the local EMS had a policy of taking mental health calls to RMC.

not to mention, Diabetic Ketoacidosis would explain the paramedics, but not the police. IIRC, Allen was taken to hospital on a 72-hour psychatric hold, under the belief he was suicidal, NOT due to a medical condition. Sure, it may ahve turned out there actualyl was something wrong, but faking Allen being suicidal? just before he was due to go on holiday? when the family has tried to screw with their vacations together before? that screams to me that it was an attempt to prevent the vacation, not any actual concern that something was wrong.

Which is a good point, and may expose the medics to some liability . . . because it doesn't matter why they get called out, they still have to do a full evaluation before transporting. Since Allen had a history of diabetes, they should have checked a blood sugar. Hyperglycemia and DKA's symptoms include an altered mental status. If they didn't check a sugar, then Roger has ammo for his complaint . . . especially since RMC seems to have been further away, and prolonged transport increases the risk of morbidity and mortality.

in short, I am skeptical that the original hospitalization was without it's own issues. It looks to me like he was taken to a more distant hospital, albeit I can see why (I'm guessing he was taken to Research Medical Center because it was supposed to be a psychiatric issue, St Luke's probably isn't a psychiatric hospital. Therefore, no fault to the police and paramedics for where they transported him, but fault to Lee for lying about a psychiatric issue)

See my answer above about why I don't think the medics are off the hook. If my guess about a genuine medical problem is right, then it would explain why he remained in the hospital. After all, Roger would be well within his rights to demand Allen be transferred to St. Lukes.

The cops aren't qualified to make medical assessments or decisions, but they are responsible for backing up the medics. So I doubt the cops really did anything wrong in the home; they responded to a call, found a patient who was altered, and it's not up to them to decide what happens next. It's the medics call.

Now proving Lee lied will be very, very hard. Odds are the medics also knew Allen and his history. But if they didn't, and Lee didn't tell them Allen was diabetic, Amanda (the daughter) did try to tell the medics that the mental health issue was under control and clearly they disagreed.

Morally and ethically, though, Lee's tryiing to get by with "it's the medic's call," and that just doesn't fly. Intent follows the bullet; Lee knew what would happen. My guess is he wanted to mess up Allen's trip, though of course that will be impossible to prove.

However, I do understand Panacea's point about POA's changing and needing to have it on hand all the time. But I'm sure Roger, in his rush, forgot it, but didn't want to leave his partner to only his brother's care, given that Lee seems to have a history of interference.

Roger would have served himself and Allen so MUCH better if he'd just kept his cool, gone home, gotten the POA before he went to the hospital, and demanded Allen be transferred to St. Lukes. He should not have addressed Lee at all, but rather demanded to speak to someone in hospital administration about a transfer while waving the POA under their noses.

Instead, he allowed Lee to bait him into a fight he could not win and got himself thrown into jail.

I'm sure Lee laughed his ass all the way home.

Methinks that it's time for a restraining order.

Yeah, good luck with that. This is Missouri, possibly the only place deeper in the black hole of intolerance than North Carolina and Mississippi.

How is that a hole? You don't need to have a POA or any legal connection at all to someone to call for help if they seem to be having a medical emergency.

It's a hole because Lee is trying to claim that the only reason Allen was transported because the medics made the decision. But Lee called the medics knowing they would do exactly that. He set all the wheels in motion. So it doesn't matter if the call was the right one or not: Lee initiated the chain of events and he has to own that rather than pretend he has no responsibility at all for what happened.

[Aethian]

Roger would have served himself and Allen so MUCH better if he'd just kept his cool, gone home, gotten the POA before he went to the hospital, and demanded Allen be transferred to St. Lukes. He should not have addressed Lee at all, but rather demanded to speak to someone in hospital administration about a transfer while waving the POA under their noses.

The POA was already on file at both hospitals with both men listing each other as the only ones allowed to give medical instructions.

[Panacea]

The POA was already on file at both hospitals with both men listing each other as the only ones allowed to give medical instructions.

Fat lot of good it did him, though, didn't it?

I usually advise family members to carry a copy on them, and bring it when they come to the hospital. Then there's no delay in determining who's in charge.

Don't get me wrong: I don't blame Roger for what happened. I blame Lee and the nurse, and the hospital. But Roger had a better weapon at his disposal to fight back than hanging on to a side rail, and he didn't make use of it. I can but hope he will always carry a copy of the POA on his person from now on.

Or better yet, get the fuck out of Missouri and go back to California which has become MUCH more gay friendly than it was 10 years ago. Missouri just isn't ready for the 21st century yet.

[HYHYBT]

It's a hole because Lee is trying to claim that the only reason Allen was transported because the medics made the decision. But Lee called the medics knowing they would do exactly that. He set all the wheels in motion. So it doesn't matter if the call was the right one or not: Lee initiated the chain of events and he has to own that rather than pretend he has no responsibility at all for what happened.

You're still speaking as if he had no business calling emergency services in the first place, and you've given so far nothing to support that beyond his lack of a POA, which is not even remotely required in that situation. For that matter, you also seem to assume that he knew that they would send him in. First, why? Depending on what they found, they might have instead decided it was unnecessary and left him alone. On the other hand, since, once called, they *did* send him to the hospital, presumably he needed to go there, and therefore believing they would take him there if called is a good reason to have made that call, rather than the opposite. Either way, he seems to have done nothing wrong up to that point, and I wish you'd explain why you believe otherwise.

(And I'm trying to be nice. Really. It's just really frustrating when a conversation seems to follow this form:
"A."
"Why, given BCD?"
"Because A."

And that's what this looks like from here. It may well be that my perception is just off tonight; if so, please bear with me and explain.)

[Aethian]

HYHYBT

Lee hadn't seen Allen at all. He had no knowledge of Allen's current emotional, physical, or mental well being. He had no reason to call nor be at a residence he wasn't wanted. At least thats my understanding.