Man thrown out of hospital when trying to stay by his gay husbands bedside

[Kheldarson]

I think the reasoning is (and this is what I think too) that Lee has an apparent history of inserting himself into this family. He made a call to medics, making a claim of "suicidal tendencies", which was false. Even though the patient may have needed medical attention for a different reason, Lee still was interfering in a very nasty way.

[smileyeagle1021]

Or better yet, get the fuck out of Missouri and go back to California which has become MUCH more gay friendly than it was 10 years ago. Missouri just isn't ready for the 21st century yet.

I think you might be giving too much credit... I think they are still hesitent about entering the 20th...

[Panacea]

You're still speaking as if he had no business calling emergency services in the first place <snip>

And that's what this looks like from here. It may well be that my perception is just off tonight; if so, please bear with me and explain.)

Lee didn't have regular contact with Allen; they are estranged because Lee and the other siblings don't approve of his relationship with Roger. So I find it hard to believe that Lee even knew Allen was sick, and certainly not that he was suicidal.

But even if he did, even if Lee did exactly the right thing for the right reasons he STILL is responsible for everything else that happened because Lee initiated the chain of events by calling the paramedics and the police, and THEN chose to get pissy with Roger at the hospital. Lee is trying to say that he had nothing to do with Allen being taken to the hospital and that statement is false on its face because Allen would never have gone to the hospital (whether or not Allen needed to go is actually irrelevant to this point) if Lee hadn't made a phone call.

Lee is trying to have his cake and eat it to. He's trying to play the loving brother card when he knows he set off a shit storm. If he really believed he did the right thing he'd be saying, "Yes, I called the medics. I called them because I was scared and I WANTED them to take Allen to the hospital, I'm GLAD he went to the hospital because Amanda is WRONG and Allen was too sick to be at home alone and could have died if I hadn't done something."

Lee isn't saying that. He said, "Well, I called them but the medics were the ones who made the decision." It's a weasel statement, totally self serving.

I think you might be giving too much credit... I think they are still hesitent about entering the 20th...

You know, it's sad that I think you're right I wish this country would grow up and get a grip.

[HYHYBT]

HYHYBT

Lee hadn't seen Allen at all. He had no knowledge of Allen's current emotional, physical, or mental well being. He had no reason to call nor be at a residence he wasn't wanted. At least thats my understanding.

Thank you; though I haven't seen anything saying that, it would make a difference.

Except for one thing: they took him to the hospital. Therefore there *was* something wrong. Therefore it is still unfair to hold calling them against Lee as if that were somehow the wrong thing to do. If they took him to the hospital, then he needed to go. If he needed to go, then calling them was the right thing to do. What happened *at* the hospital is irrelevant to that point, as is whether the family got along well together and anything else.

Lee isn't saying that. He said, "Well, I called them but the medics were the ones who made the decision." It's a weasel statement, totally self serving.

It sounds like the simple truth to me. He *did* call them. They, and not him, *did* make the decision that the guy indeed did need to be taken to the hospital; they presumably could, had things been different, have decided otherwise and left him alone. Plain and simple truth.

[Andara Bledin]

Except for one thing: they took him to the hospital. Therefore there *was* something wrong. Therefore it is still unfair to hold calling them against Lee as if that were somehow the wrong thing to do.

Except that it's a red herring.

If Lee did not already know, for a fact, that Allen was in need of hospitalization, then calling them was absolutely not the right thing to do, regardless of the eventual outcome.

The ends cannot be allowed to justify the means, just because he got lucky and Allen actually did need help. The malevolence of Lee's attempt to sabotage his vacation with his husband cannot be excused just because something good came out of it.

[Panacea]

The ends cannot be allowed to justify the means, just because he got lucky and Allen actually did need help. The malevolence of Lee's attempt to sabotage his vacation with his husband cannot be excused just because something good came out of it.

Beautiful. This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Thanks.

[s_stabeler]

Except that it's a red herring.

If Lee did not already know, for a fact, that Allen was in need of hospitalization, then calling them was absolutely not the right thing to do, regardless of the eventual outcome.

The ends cannot be allowed to justify the means, just because he got lucky and Allen actually did need help. The malevolence of Lee's attempt to sabotage his vacation with his husband cannot be excused just because something good came out of it.

exactly. Lee called the cops & ambulance because he wanted to screw up Allen's holiday (could that count as theft? It'd be a nice end result if Lee had to pay for the cost of the holiday) with his husband. That it turned out that Allen actually did need medical attention is immaterial.

Let me use a different example. a police officer conducts an illegal search of someone's house. They find drugs bagged up for sale. The search is not rendered legal juts because there actually were drugs in the building. It's a similar situation- Lee had no knowledge of Allen's condition prior to calling the cops (Allen wasn't even at home when Lee arrived, by my read of the article) therefore cannot claim Allen's condition justified the call.

[HYHYBT]

If Lee did not already know, for a fact, that Allen was in need of hospitalization, then calling them was absolutely not the right thing to do, regardless of the eventual outcome.

Setting aside assumptions of malicious motive (and that's ALL they are) why not?

[Andara Bledin]

Setting aside assumptions of malicious motive (and that's ALL they are) why not?

Because you don't roll paramedics unless you have an idea that they're needed.

Does that really require being spelled out?

Lee wasn't there. He'd not had contact with Allen at all. What possible reason did he have to go to the house with paramedics and police other than as a malicious act?

[siead_lietrathua]

Setting aside assumptions of malicious motive (and that's ALL they are) why not?

because you never, ever, use 911 if it's not am emergency. if they had arrived on scene and everything was fine, the bro probably woulda been fined for making a false report.
heck we learn as kids you don't screw around with fire/ ambulance/ police. that whole cry wolf thing.

[Panacea]

because you never, ever, use 911 if it's not am emergency. if they had arrived on scene and everything was fine, the bro probably woulda been fined for making a false report.
heck we learn as kids you don't screw around with fire/ ambulance/ police. that whole cry wolf thing.

Yeah, I never see patients abuse 911.

/sarcasm

[smileyeagle1021]

Yeah, I never see patients abuse 911.

/sarcasm

A lot of that is at the 911 departments' request though. At least locally I've seen commercials that stress the point of when in doubt call 911. That it is far better for paramedics to be dispatched to someone who thinks they are having a stroke turn out to be merely a bad case of vertigo (I don't know if those two things have similar symptoms or not, I kind of just chose them randomly) than have someone assume it is just vertigo and die from a stroke.

Back to the case of Lee, there is no way for Lee to have known anything about Allen's condition to even have made a false alarm of assuming the worst when it wasn't something major. In the end is it good that he got the care that was needed? Absolutely, but getting the care that was needed could not possibly have been the motive because, as was mentioned, there is no way that Lee could have known whether or not care was needed.

[siead_lietrathua]

Yeah, I never see patients abuse 911.

/sarcasm

heh, my local hospital is funny for those. once when i was there, they had a women come in in an ambulance for a non-emergency (hurt her ankle if i remember right) because her husband didn't feel like driving her. the triage nurse REAMED him a new one over the phone i could hear it through the door of the nurse station for abusing the services and being a lazy ass. made the hours-long wait manageable.

[Panacea]

A lot of that is at the 911 departments' request though. At least locally I've seen commercials that stress the point of when in doubt call 911.

Yeah but I'm not really talking about that.

I'm talking about the patient who calls 911 because she wants to go to the mall and doesn't have a car.

I'm talking about the patient who calls 911 because she doesn't want to spend a few bucks for the OTC treatment for pinworms, and gets pissy when sent to the waiting room to wait her turn.

I'm talking about the patient who doesn't want to spend a few bucks at the dollar store for a pregnancy test, and then wants an ultrasound so they can "see" the baby, and who calls 911 to get these things.

[Andara Bledin]

Seems to me the '911 abuse by patient' conversation belongs in another thread.