Boston Marathon Bombing

[Hyena Dandy]

Calling them muslim seems reasonable. Dzokhar stated on a social networking site his worldviews were 'Islam.'

I saw a debate about if they were 'Devout' Muslims, which annoyed me because this debate discussed

1) Did they go to Mosque every Friday

2) Did they say they were muslims.

I'll count "Saying you're Muslim" as the belief that there is no God but God and Mohammed is his prophet, and we can probably say they just didn't have any money to go on the Hajj, and were very young.

But nobody mentioned charity, Ramadan, or if they prayed five times a day. But it bothers me that discussing whether someone is a "Devout Muslim" doesn't even bare MENTIONING the Five Pillars of Islam, and basically treats it the same way you'd tell if someone is a devout Christian, but they say Allah a lot.

Personally, I think a "Devout" Muslim is not likely declare himself "The best Beer Pony player in Cambridge" something which the discussions also didn't mention.

[fireheart17]

But nobody mentioned charity, Ramadan, or if they prayed five times a day. But it bothers me that discussing whether someone is a "Devout Muslim" doesn't even bare MENTIONING the Five Pillars of Islam, and basically treats it the same way you'd tell if someone is a devout Christian, but they say Allah a lot.

Personally, I think a "Devout" Muslim is not likely declare himself "The best Beer Pony player in Cambridge" something which the discussions also didn't mention.

Slight nitpick, but I do believe that charity IS one of the Five Pillars

The other four are belief, worship, fasting (sawm aka Ramadan) and hajj.

As for the alcoholism, he's got NO excuse there . The Qur'an makes 3 mentions about alcoholism, the first one just says "don't pray while drunk", the second one makes reference to alcohol being more like a game of chance rigged in the favour of evil, while the third reference refers to alcohol as being the tool of Satan.

And before anyone asks, the clothing rule is NOT one of the five pillars! It's made reference to in the Qur'an and at the bare minimum, Muslim women cover up their body while praying and during religious festivities. Little fun fact I discovered as well: Indonesia (the biggest Muslim country) does not require women to wear the veil. Despite this, many of the women still cover their heads anyway for various cultural/practical reasons. (there is one exception, which is Aceh)

[Hyena Dandy]

Slight nitpick, but I do believe that charity IS one of the Five Pillars

I didn't mean to say it wasn't, if I was misinterpreted, I apologize. I do know the 5 Pillars. My church's RE class taught us the basics of many different religions. What I was trying to say was that they only talked about belief, and even if I'm saying whether they went on the Hajj is irrelevant (because they were both young and didn't have the money to get to Saudi Arabia) the other three pillars (Charity, Ramadan, and Worship) weren't mentioned.

And as for the alcohol... Generally, I think if there's any category of Muslim-being that Sarah from Little Mosque on the Prairie beats you in, you're probably not that great at the whole Islam thing.

[Panacea]

- Since there have been Moslem terrorists from Chechyna, and these guys from Chechyna committed a terrorist act, they are Islamic terrorists.

Instead, it's increasingly clear that this is a case of two pissed off kids who acted independently. The actual motive is still not clear, but wanting to do this because of "grievances against Islam" does make it a terroristic act (just like the KKK burning down a church would be), but does not mean they were connected to global terror networks (apparently, they weren't).

I read elsewhere today that thr mosque they attended has refused to host the funeral. Given the other unreliable reporting I'll take that with salt, but if true, calling them Muslim seems reasonable. Of course, even then it might well have nothing to do with their motivation.

The imams are refusing to conduct the service, but will allow a lay member of the community to do so if they are asked for use of their mosque. The family has yet to ask, and no one has claimed the body.

The father is planning to come to the US, but has health problems. He went to a local hospital, it is not certain if he was admitted or still plans to come soon. The mother doesn't want to come; she has pending felony charges in Massachusetts (shoplifting and property damage) that she jumped bail on when the family went back to Dagestan. Reportedly she's been assured she won't be arrested, but apparently she's not taking any chances.

Mom is refusing to believe the charges, and is buying into the conspiracy theory nuts who are already claiming the bombing was faked. I can't blame her on that one: denial is the first stage of grieving and she is clearly in denial.

1) Did they go to Mosque every Friday

2) Did they say they were muslims.

They went to the Boston Islamic Society mosque occasionally, according to CNN. That's not the same as every Friday. And Tamerlan was prone to interrupting services and told he would not be welcomed back if he didn't knock it off. So they did claim to be Muslims, and I think it likely they did recite the 5 Pillars. I think it's a nit picky point though.

I'll count "Saying you're Muslim" as the belief that there is no God but God and Mohammed is his prophet, and we can probably say they just didn't have any money to go on the Hajj, and were very young.

Tamerlan had enough money to go back to Russia at least once. Why he hadn't taken the haji is something we'll never know, but I'm not going to criticize his decision. How one follows the path of faith is an individual journey.

But nobody mentioned charity, Ramadan, or if they prayed five times a day. But it bothers me that discussing whether someone is a "Devout Muslim" doesn't even bare MENTIONING the Five Pillars of Islam, and basically treats it the same way you'd tell if someone is a devout Christian, but they say Allah a lot.

Well, that really depends on what kind of a Christian you are. There are a lot of Christians who are non-denominational, who believe in Jesus but don't go to church and hence have never been baptized. I was one for many years, before I converted to Catholicism.

Now to be a devout Catholic you do have to go through a fairly long and intensive process (It took me 8 months to get ready for baptism, and I'm still in RCIA classes until the end of May).

People Tamerlan knew called him a devout Muslim. According to what they saw of him, they thought they had reason to believe he was. So that's why they called him devout. But it is true many people call themselves devout without really understanding what that devotion really means. A lot of people think it just means they really believe in the dogma of their faith.

A Catholic can call himself devout because he goes to Mass every Sunday, and puts money in the collection plate, and undergoes the Sacrament of Reconciliation twice a year. But if he's not committing himself to service in the name of Jesus, he's not devout. In Catholicism, worship and service are intertwined: you have to do both.

In Islam you have to live by the 5 Pillars. So if you don't follow one of the pillars I guess an argument could be made about whether or not you're really devout. However, I'm not Muslim, and really only have a superficial understand of what their faith is about. Therefore, I'm not going to speculate on whether or not Tamerlan was truly devout.

However, I do believe that by what I understand of his faith that he grievously sinned by committing the crimes he did. If I understand Islam right, killing innocent people is murder, and a horrible sin according to his faith.

Personally, I think a "Devout" Muslim is not likely declare himself "The best Beer Pony player in Cambridge" something which the discussions also didn't mention.

I tend to agree. But it's not to me to judge based on that.

[Gravekeeper]

They're as Muslim as an abortion clinic bomber is Christian. -.-

[fireheart17]

I didn't mean to say it wasn't, if I was misinterpreted, I apologize. I do know the 5 Pillars. My church's RE class taught us the basics of many different religions. What I was trying to say was that they only talked about belief, and even if I'm saying whether they went on the Hajj is irrelevant (because they were both young and didn't have the money to get to Saudi Arabia) the other three pillars (Charity, Ramadan, and Worship) weren't mentioned.

Oops. I misread that. My bad.

And as for the alcohol... Generally, I think if there's any category of Muslim-being that Sarah from Little Mosque on the Prairie beats you in, you're probably not that great at the whole Islam thing.

Pretty much this.

[HYHYBT]

They're as Muslim as an abortion clinic bomber is Christian. -.-

In both cases, there are entirely too many people who want to insist their actions are a fair representative of the respective religions.

[Peppergirl]

In both cases, there are entirely too many people who want to insist their actions are a fair representative of the respective religions.

By the same token, there are far too many people who generalize and think that everyone who is part of *whatever* religion are all the same as the crazy types who do shit like this.

[Panacea]

By the same token, there are far too many people who generalize and think that everyone who is part of *whatever* religion are all the same as the crazy types who do shit like this.

Thank you. That's exactly the point.