"Women Only" Hour At Gym Leads To Lawsuit

[Panacea]

For screaming in her ear, I'm not sure he shouldn't be hit with an assault charge, to be honest.

Depends on her jurisdiction and the DA's willingness to make it stick. I wouldn't be unhappy if a DA did decide to push a charge on this asshat.

But the real response should have come from every other person in that gym, to surround this guy and say, "Your behavior is not acceptable. Apologize. At once."

[Duelist925]

God I wish I could take credit for that quote by Gravekeeper.

Welp, isn't my face red. Fixed.

[Gravekeeper]

There is only one known complaint. If he is this upset by his gym, I'm sure he can have the owner cancel his membership. He is free to train at any other gym, although I wish him luck finding one that doesn't offer a women's only space or time in some way.

While it may be a small matter, walking away from equality doesn't fix it. Also, you are missing his point. It wasn't that he minded women's only time. He minds paying the same membership fee while having less access. Something the business refused to address or compromise on. If the business had provided a similar service to men or reduced men's fees accordingly there would be no problem.

I even double checked on my gyms contracts. It's all covered there.

A business cannot discriminate by virtue of making its customers sign something. Especially one that is public funded such as this one.

It's something they found there was a demand for and so it made good business sense to implement it.

(snip)

The owner found it nessesary to implement it for his members. The best way to discontinue this women's only hour is to make it so that the members and the gym owner no longer feel it is nessesary.

So which is it? You went from business sense to necessary in the span of one post. ;p

I'll help you out here: The business owner said they did it because women are self conscious. Never mind the fact that men can and are self conscious about working out as well. I dare say the average person of either gender is at least a little self conscious about working out in a room full of strangers.

The best way to discontinue this women's only hour is to make it so that the members and the gym owner no longer feel it is nessesary.

He is not asking to discontinue it, he is asking for the gym to be fair about it. Perhaps you should read the article we're talking about here.

[BlaqueKatt]

As it all stands, the decision to create a women's only time slot was made by the gym owner. <snip>The gym is a private business that has the right to change its operating times, availabilty and classes as it chooses. <snip>The owner found it nessesary to implement it for his members.

All of these are incorrect assumptions based off of NOT reading the article

The venue, owned by fitness company Better in association with Camden Council,
Especially given that council officials base it almost solely on women's needs.

It was a GOVERNMENT BODY, not "the owner" that made the decision, and it is certainly not a "private business".

[Canarr]

Absolutely fuck this guy. He's an asshole, who doesn't understand how motivation works, much less common courtesy. All he had to do was say, "You know I appreciate you're trying to motivate yourself, but the noise is distracting me, please tone it down." Then the ball is in her court.

But physical intimidation. Oh the hell no. He should have been hit with the permabanhammer for that.

But that's an outlier, not the norm, for why some women feel uncomfortable in gyms.

Absolutely; to be honest, I don't get the rationale behind moving the person who was assaulted away from the area where she was exercising, and allowing the asshole who assaulted her to stay. In my mind, the right answer would've been to kick the guy out immediately, so the other member can continue training safely whereever she chooses, instead of having to be locked away.

I'm with GK here: the idea that the *victim* should move baffles me. Wouldn't women feel much safer working out in this gym if they could see that such behavior is not tolerated, and perpetrators are swiftly and decisively dealt with?

As to the OP: how can a publicly funded organisation propagate discrimination like that?

[Panacea]

Oh, I agree. The woman should have stayed, and the man been publicly escorted out.

[crashhelmet]

A somewhat relevant YouTube video on this subject

[fireheart17]

As to the OP: how can a publicly funded organisation propagate discrimination like that?

Affirmative action/positive discrimination. An attempt to address "genuine*" deficits in a business, government program or needs of community.

One example I can think of is a number of positions that are advertised as being for Indigenous workers only, even if there is someone out there who is more qualified than the Indigenous worker.

*=reason why I say "genuine" in quotes is that down here, you need a bloody good reason in order to do something like this. You can't ask for an exemption simply so you can refuse to hire one race over another. Gender may be if there's likely to be far-reaching implications long-term. YMMV however.

[Rebel]

According to the Kentish Town Sports Centre's website:

Women Only Swimming Sessions are currently held in the Grafton Pool on:

- Wednesdays: From: 12:30 pm To 01:30 pm
From: 04:00 pm To 05:00 pm

- Thursdays: From: 07:00 pm To 10:00 pm

- Sundays: From: 04:00 pm To 05:00 pm

We also run Women Only session in the Fitness Centre on Thursdays from 06:00pm to 07:30 pm.

There is also a 1 hour water fitness class for women on Thursday evenings starting at 6:00pm.
So the men lose 1.5 hours a week in the fitness centre and 7 hours in one of the three pools (Grafton pool) within the facilities a week. The rest of the facilities are available during these times. The only day, which could really be seen to be of an inconvenience to male members, is on Thursdays.

The Sports Centre does address this:

If there is a restricted session (e.g. women only gym), we will do our best to offer you an alternative activity, or ensure availability programme at a nearby leisure centre.

Thus anytime that a male member is unable to use a portion of the facilities due to the restricted women's hours, the staff will try to provide an alternative.

In terms of restricted times for members:
-There are also 6 hours of gym time a week that is restricted to members that are 11-15 years old. They also monopolize the Grafton pool around 44 hours a week.
-The largest pool in the facility (Willies pool) is restricted to over 55's members for 25 hours a week, and they also have complete use of the group fitness room for 3 hours a week.

Mr Lloyd would also be unable to use the facilities during these times but he makes no mention of this fact. If he wants a discount for the 8.5 hours a week of women's only time, why not a discount for the 78 hours that he is also ineligible for full use of the facilities?

[Rebel]

But Sexism!

The website also shows on the fitness timetable there is a Men's Only (M) option available.

W - Women Only
M - Men Only
T - 11-15 years
S - Over 55's
C - Crèche
P - Must attend course prior

There just currently aren't any classes.
Possibly due to no interest.
The fact remains that the facility does have an option available for it, just that it's never been used.

Mr Lloyd saw something that was only for women and demanded equal representation/a discount, or he would sue.
The problem is that the women’s only hours came following study and a general need found to be within the community.
For men’s only times to be available, you would simply have to find a similar need within the community (i.e. more than 1 person demanding it).

Nothing in the article indicates that Mr Lloyd actually put any time into finding if there was a demand for times to be male only. There is no indication that he spent any time questioning the other male members if they were looking to have male only times at the gym. If he had done this, and/or presented studies indicating that men will feel more comfortable with male only hours, and the centre had shot down his suggestions, then I would feel more sympathetic to his plight.

Instead, he has made demands to a fitness facility for a program that no-one but himself has shown any interest in. An exercise facility is not going to start a class or restrict a section simply for 1 person (unless there is an extremely good reason). A class/time must have enough people interested in doing it at a certain time before it can be created.

Fuck, I have no problem with gyms having Men's Only times, or disabled only times, or transexual only times, or times when only people with bad rashes can attend. Go for it. Just don't threaten to sue if the gym refuses because it's for only one person who expects the gym to be cleared out just for them.

[Gravekeeper]

Fuck, I have no problem with gyms having Men's Only times, or disabled only times, or transexual only times, or times when only people with bad rashes can attend. Go for it. Just don't threaten to sue if the gym refuses because it's for only one person who expects the gym to be cleared out just for them.

How did you post so much yet still so completely miss the point? >.>

[Canarr]

Oh, I agree. The woman should have stayed, and the man been publicly escorted out.

Exactly! This whole idea that women are so weak and fragile, they need to be sequestered away from the brutish males so they can feel safe is stupid - and, as GK said, demeaning to both sexes. I like the way this Peter Lloyd put it:

Forcing men - whether 70 year-old pensioners or 13 year-old boys who attend with their mothers - to leave a room because of their gender, rather than their behaviour, is degrading. It's also eerily reminiscent of when African Americans were separated from their caucasian peers in 1940s America.

Not least because the underlying maxim is the same. In this instance, that all men are inherently bad. This is a toxic message to send out, especially when those affected are frequently young boys in crucial stages of puberty and self-development.

Such messages are pernicious. They criminalise men for being male, while telling women that they have less responsibility to contribute to functional gender relations.

While I'm not sure I can get behind his comparison to the racist "separate but equal" legislation in the US a century ago, I do agree that the message is dangerous: teaching boys that they are "bad" just for being male, and teaching girls and young women that it's not necessary to learn how to stand up to and deal with inappropriate male behavior: "Oh, don't worry about that, honey! We'll just make them go away!" What will that solve?

If you run a place of business, and you want your customers to feel comfortable and safe, you achieve that by showing that any inappropriate and/or harassing behavior will not be tolerated, and the perpetrators - no matter which gender - will be swiftly removed from the premises. As for women feeling self-conscious about their bodies while exercising: that's hardly going to be solved by banning men. Other women are just as capable of insulting comments or looks than men are - if not more so.

[Ginger Tea]

As for women feeling self-conscious about their bodies while exercising: that's hardly going to be solved by banning men. Other women are just as capable of insulting comments or looks than men are - if not more so.

Which has been commented on before, people with bad self image are not going to suddenly feel better due to the lack of testosterone in the room, so segregating the populous solves nothing in this regard.

I much prefer the extreme route of total segregation and have separate floors or buildings with equal facilities, women don't want guys hitting on them exercising? problem solved, guys will go there to exercise and not show off or have younger women ogling them.

But as was posted a few pages back a gym with two sites closed them both down as their client base were never happy with what compromises were on offer.

[crashhelmet]

But Sexism!

The website also shows on the fitness timetable there is a Men's Only (M) option available.

There just currently aren't any classes.
Possibly due to no interest.
The fact remains that the facility does have an option available for it, just that it's never been used.

Mr Lloyd saw something that was only for women and demanded equal representation/a discount, or he would sue.
The problem is that the women’s only hours came following study and a general need found to be within the community.
For men’s only times to be available, you would simply have to find a similar need within the community (i.e. more than 1 person demanding it).

Nothing in the article indicates that Mr Lloyd actually put any time into finding if there was a demand for times to be male only. There is no indication that he spent any time questioning the other male members if they were looking to have male only times at the gym. If he had done this, and/or presented studies indicating that men will feel more comfortable with male only hours, and the centre had shot down his suggestions, then I would feel more sympathetic to his plight.

Instead, he has made demands to a fitness facility for a program that no-one but himself has shown any interest in. An exercise facility is not going to start a class or restrict a section simply for 1 person (unless there is an extremely good reason). A class/time must have enough people interested in doing it at a certain time before it can be created.

Fuck, I have no problem with gyms having Men's Only times, or disabled only times, or transexual only times, or times when only people with bad rashes can attend. Go for it. Just don't threaten to sue if the gym refuses because it's for only one person who expects the gym to be cleared out just for them.

Rebel... I realize you're trying to do everything to defend the side of the gym and the discriminatory idea of a "Women only" time, but the link you just posted is a class schedule. He's not complaining about classes that he can or cannot attend. He's complaining about the gym as a whole.

From their web site

We also run Women Only session in the Fitness Centre on Thursdays from 06:00pm to 07:30 pm.

Now, I don't know about the work out habits of our friends across the pond, but here in Las Vegas that is one of the peakiest of all peak times in every gym here. And believe me, we have a lot of them here.

I'd be pitching a fit too if I couldn't couldn't get in during that time and then had to fight all of the other men for the weights and/or machines before and/or after it.