CPS takes child from parents

[Kheldarson]

Because they went to get a second opinion.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/377...ctors-opinion-

Basically, Hospital A seemed to have a communication issue which was worrying the parents. So they decided to take their child over to Hospital B. A refused to discharge the child, but the parents took kid to B anyway.

Cops showed up to B, saw kid was cool and getting proper care, and left.

The next day the cops and CPS show up at the parents' house and take the kid, putting him in the care of Hospital A. The parents now have to go to court to defend their actions.


I can get the whole investigating because to make sure the kid got the care he needed, but he obviously did. So why was he taken from the parents?!

[Akasa]

That's BS! The police checked on the kid, saw he was getting treatment at B, probably reported it, and cops and CPS STILL showed up and took the kid away and into incompetent hospital's hands?

[Kheldarson]

According to the article, yes.

Let's just say, if something like that happened with my kid, I'd be having heads.

[Greenday]

This is pretty much no different from kidnapping and should be treated as such.

[HYHYBT]

I'd like to know more about the reasoning behind this before judging anyone.

[Kheldarson]

Well, the parents have a bit more custody now.

I disagree with the courts that they need to follow all medical advice though. What if they think the advice is wrong (which is what happened in the first place)? Does this mean they can't go get a second opinion ever again?

Also: Found an article that gives a bit more info on the initial situation: http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/a...nclick_check=1

CPS isn't saying anything beyond the standard boilerplate, but the mom says it was explained to her that they were taking her child because she had taken him out of emergency care and placed his life in danger. WTF?

[Rageaholic]

"I'm going to grab your baby, don't resist". Holy crap!

This is the other side of parents deciding the medical treatment for their child. Most of the time, the parents are anti medication zealots who actually put their child's life in danger. Now we have a case where the hospital showed no care for the child and the police practically forced them to put the baby back in a dangerous situation.

The mother and father would have been justified in telling those asshole cops to go fuck themselves sideways.

[Panacea]

I'm perplexed by CPS's action on this. Neglect???? Are you kidding me?

They took the baby to the hospital when he got sick.

They disagreed with the care he got there; they were concerned. So they took him to another hospital for a second opinion. Sutter was talking surgery; the parents did the right thing by getting a second opinion.

They have the right to leave AMA. It might not be advisable, but it's within their rights, and you can't call that neglect because they went to another fucking hospital!

Someone at Sutter got a major chap in their ass over this. The whole thing sounds vindictive to me.

There are heart murmers and there are heart murmurs. Some require surgery. Some don't. It does not sound like an emergent situation. Informed consent is a requirement. These parents weren't claiming any kind of wacky faith healing BS. They didn't like their caregivers. Patients should trust their caregivers. If you don't trust yours, get a fucking second opinion!

Even if I assume the parents were acting like asshats in some way, they took the kid to another hospital; so even if they were behavioral problems at Sutter, they are not neglecting their baby.

[s_stabeler]

I'm not sure CPS actually did anything wrong when they took the kid. From the article on lansingstatejournal, they may not have known that the kid was taken to a different hospital, plus they may have believed the kid to be in imminent danger

What I think happened:

1. parents decide to take kid out of hospital to get a second opinion
2. parents take kid out of hospital AMA
3. parents take kid to hospital No 2
4. someone at Hospital No 1 calls police, concerned that kid might be in danger (or out of spite)
5. police confirm everything is OK
6. someone at Hospital No 1 decides to call CPS, not telling CPS the police had been called, and either exaggerating the kid's condition, or not understanding the kid would have been operated on in two weeks
7. CPS, believing the kid would die soon w/o medical treatment, take the kid, and take him to Hospital No 1 ( because as far as they know, there is no second hospital involved)

As for limited visitation, remember that CPS believe that they were attempting to refuse treatment entirely- they might be concerned they will take the kid, especially since the parents have expressed a (justified, admittedly) desire to take the kid home. As for why the court ruled they had to abide by all medical advice- that is probably to prevent this from flaring up again, rather than a permanent bar agianst ignoring medical advice.

also, one small point- it looks like the first hospital was in fact correct, in that the kid needed surgery. Plus, hospital No 1 was the regular hospital for dealing with the murmur. it may have looked to the hospital like the objection was to the surgery.

[Panacea]

also, one small point- it looks like the first hospital was in fact correct, in that the kid needed surgery. Plus, hospital No 1 was the regular hospital for dealing with the murmur. it may have looked to the hospital like the objection was to the surgery.

Let's assume your timeline is right.

Once CPS found out the parents took the kid to a 2nd hospital, they should have backed off. The judge should have thrown the case out.

Parents have the right to refuse treatment or to seek a 2nd opinion. If a hospital wants to force life saving treatment on a child (say, if the parents are Christian Scientists such as discussed in another thread recently), then they must go to court and get a court order FIRST.

There's no evidence the parents don't want to treat the child, and every evidence they care and seek appropriate care. Not wanting to rush into surgery is neither surprising nor evidence of neglect.

[violiav]

I've seen this going around Facebook lately, heavy with comments of "Only in California" and "California's a police state! Ermagerd!!"

[Panacea]

I've seen this going around Facebook lately, heavy with comments of "Only in California" and "California's a police state! Ermagerd!!"

It happens plenty of other places. My beef with CPS in California is they are usually UNWILLING to step up and take kids out of really dangerous situations. They send the kid back to the parents time and time again, in spite of blatant abuse. I've seen the results when they come into the ER.

CPS in California sucks, but not for the reasons one would usually suppose

[Nekojin]

My mother is a retired Family Law attorney here in California. I can say with certainty that CPS runs hot and cold here - it doesn't seem like there's any real moderation going on. Either everything's roses or it's time to take the kid away - no real middle ground, regardless of what the circumstances of the situation are.

[Andara Bledin]

Apparently, half the time is spent not doing their jobs, while the rest is spent trying to justify why they should be able to keep them.

[violiav]

Actually that's much the same here in Texas.
Story one: After my boyfriends wife left him with three kids he slipped into a depression. Already not the most proactive cleaner, this made things worse. His duplex got bad, not hording bad, but really not clean either. The middle child started getting up randomly in the middle of the night to play with toys (he was about 3 or 4, IIRC). BF always locked his doors, regular and the deadbolt. So one time this kid got up at 2 in the am. Everyone else is asleep. BF is snoring away in his room. Because it's two am. So kid decides he wants to go for a walk. He drags a chair over, unlocks the door and goes for a stroll. A truck driver eventually picks him up and calls the cops. Cops figure out where kid lives, and go banging on the door. At what must be 3 or 4 am. Up to the door rushes BF, disheveled in underwear. Cops do their thing. They think he's drunk or on drugs, don't believe him when he tells them kid knows how to unlock the door. Cops see the mess in the place. Cops take the kids away (fortunately their grandma lived across the street so he saw them regularly. He got the kids back, but only after jumping through a crap ton of hoops. Had to do drugs tests, parenting classes, etc. Took over a year.
Story 2
BF's ex-BILs sister. Let's call her D. D was a major, major druggie. Like all while pregnant, didn't even want a kid, but you know, abortion is a sin (and doing hard drugs while pregnant isn't?) . It got worse after the fact. She would leave the baby crying for hours with soiled diapers. She wouldn't buy diapers and somehow tape pads to the baby. Vomit, used drug stuff, and other grossness stayed littered everywhere on the floor, where she left the baby. CPS and the cops were called on D several times, but still the baby got left with her . Why? The authorities didn't want to take her from her mother. Eventually her brother intervened and took the baby, and eventually him and his wife got custody, but that took forever, even with D voluntarily giving up her rights-the courts didn't want to. And this was a -seriously- messed up chick too.