CS and "race card" threads

[Slytovhand]

I is suspecting that the main bone of the (now) topic is that it's not that such programs exist, but how they are 'managed'.

I'll be dull and boring, and keep using the same example I always bring out. Aboriginal person decides he wants to be a mechanic. He doesn't have the grades, so he 'pulls the race card', and gets into the course as an ATSI student (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander) - fully funded scholarship. He pulls out of the course only a month or 2 in - thus meaning someone else was unable to get into the course, and it was too late to start it from that point. Said Aboriginal student just couldn't deal with it. Even though academically this was already known, he still got in based purely on race.

Similarly, I knew when I was on the dole, if I desperately needed social security money, I'd have to run through hoops. I also know, that if I was ATSI, then I'd get that money pretty much straight away.

So - that raises the question... was I in any lesser need than anyone else, at that time?

When a person is in need, then a person is in need - and race, creed, colour, sex, etc etc etc, should have no bearing on the subject (although... if you've put yourself in that place of need deliberately, then that's a different matter, IMHO... and that's a H for Honest - not Humble )

So what JC said is still quite correct... but so is what Saydrah and Shadow have said. Just depends on the angle you look at it from....

[powerboy]

What really gets me, is when someone replys to a thread. By saying that "The Race Card" has expired. I know it is all said in great fun and for laughs. But it is not funny.

[Rapscallion]

Oddly enough, I think it is. What are the reasons you think it's not funny?

Rapscallion

[Slytovhand]

What really gets me, is when someone replys to a thread. By saying that "The Race Card" has expired. I know it is all said in great fun and for laughs. But it is not funny.

No Comprende....

[katie kaboom]

What really gets me, is when someone replys to a thread. By saying that "The Race Card" has expired. I know it is all said in great fun and for laughs. But it is not funny.

hmmm, i actually think it's kind of clever. But to each his own i suppose.

[Slytovhand]

DW... I get it now...

[Sylvia727]

Personally, I find "I'm sorry, but your race card has been declined. Do you have another form of entitlement you'd like to use?" to be amusing; not just funny, but thought-provoking. It gets the point across without addressing the question of racial relations as a whole, but merely in regards to the specific situation. In other words, it points out the sucky customer as an entitlement whore seeking out any excuse, instead of focusing on the validity of racial discrimination as a general topic.

[Boozy]

"I'm sorry, but your race card has been declined. Do you have another form of entitlement you'd like to use?"

Yeah, that one made me laugh out loud.

You're calling them out on their crap but couching it in polite customer service talk. I think I'd be able to get away with that one, were I ever to find myself in such a situation.

[The Shadow]

Well I see this thread has taken a bit of a different direction than what I intended. I know it's old, but I thought I would breathe new life into it after I found an interesting article on the internet. But first I should say something about this...

In a few extremely rare cases, yes.

A local restaurant got busted a few years back for denying tables to black people. They got them by doing what they call a "sandwich." They sent a black person in, who was told there were no tables. Then they sent a white person in, who was seated without a problem. Then they sent another black person in, who was again told there were no tables.

Surprisingly, they're still in business.

If they're still in business, then yes that IS amazing! And that kind of blatant overt racism is extremely rare (or at least I would hope it is).

But those aren't the sort of incidents I meant. I was referring to the more subtle, insidious ones in which someone isn't conscious of the fact that their behaviour is racist - ie; watching black customers in a store more intently than white ones.

Here's the article, with a few of the more pertinent bits quoted:

What Kind of Card is Race

That bringing up racism (even with copious documentation) is far from an effective “card” to play in order to garner sympathy, is evidenced by the way in which few people even become aware of the studies confirming its existence. How many Americans do you figure have even heard, for example, that black youth arrested for drug possession for the first time are incarcerated at a rate that is forty-eight times greater than the rate for white youth, even when all other factors surrounding the crime are identical?

How many have heard that persons with “white sounding names,” according to a massive national study, are fifty percent more likely to be called back for a job interview than those with “black sounding” names, even when all other credentials are the same?

How many know that white men with a criminal record are slightly more likely to be called back for a job interview than black men without one, even when the men are equally qualified, and present themselves to potential employers in an identical fashion?

And...

Perhaps this is why, contrary to popular belief, research indicates that people of color are actually reluctant to allege racism, be it on the job, or in schools, or anywhere else. Far from “playing the race card” at the drop of a hat, it is actually the case (again, according to scholarly investigation, as opposed to the conventional wisdom of the white public), that black and brown folks typically “stuff” their experiences with discrimination and racism, only making an allegation of such treatment after many, many incidents have transpired, about which they said nothing for fear of being ignored or attacked (10).Precisely because white denial has long trumped claims of racism, people of color tend to underreport their experiences with racial bias, rather than exaggerate them. Again,when it comes to playing a race card, it is more accurate to say that whites are the dealers with the loaded decks, shooting down any evidence of racism as little more than the fantasies of unhinged blacks, unwilling to take personal responsibility for their own problems in life.

And...

what does it say about white rationality and white collective sanity, that in 1963–at a time when in retrospect all would agree racism was rampant in the United States, and before the passage of modern civil rights legislation–nearly two-thirds of whites, when polled, said they believed blacks were treated the same as whites in their communities–almost the same number as say this now, some forty-plus years later? What does it suggest about the extent of white folks’ disconnection from the real world, that in 1962, eighty-five percent of whites said black children had just as good a chance as white children to get a good education in their communities (12)? Or that in May, 1968, seventy percent of whites said that blacks were treated the same as whites in their communities, while only seventeen percent said blacks were treated “not very well” and only 3.5 percent said blacks were treated badly?

....

In other words, even when racism was, by virtually all accounts (looking backward in time), institutionalized, white folks were convinced there was no real problem. Indeed, even forty years ago, whites were more likely to think that blacks had better opportunities, than to believe the opposite (and obviously accurate) thing: namely, that whites were advantaged in every realm of American life.

[smileyeagle1021]

You can't turn black for a week, but you can go to your nearest Pride shop and buy yourself some rainbow and pink shirts and jewelry. Live as a gay man for a week.

Please don't take her advise... please don't dress up in rainbow and pink (which, OK, I'll admit to sometimes wearing for fun, but not a daily thing).
If you really want to live a week as a gay man, start every conversation by asking yourself "how am I going to get out of explaining my relationship if the conversation turns to that... do I even have to get out of it... is that person going to run to the boss and rat me out... is the boss going to fire me for it (which btw is still legal in nearly half the states)... would that change how everyone treats me..."

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

If I let you step on my shoulders to get onto a high ledge, shouldn't you extend a hand to help me up next?

This country could not have become so wealthy and powerful so fast without slavery, and people are still alive today who suffered from Jim Crow laws when they tried to get an education, a job, and a life that allowed them to take advantage of that wealth and power.

So I do think some affirmative action is a good idea in order to extend the benefits of a country built on the backs of racial minorities to those same racial minorities today. Do I know exactly what that should look like? No. I'm not an expert on the subject. However, when the people who are put forth plans-- for example, a plan to help minorities start a business-- I'll support them.

Ok, I can see that and the way you put it is a valid point. If "If I let you step on my shoulders to get onto a high ledge, shouldn't you extend a hand to help me up next?"

But what about me? No one in my family has ever owned slaves. As a matter of fact, from the time America was founded until just before WWII, no member of my ancestors ever set foot in the US. I am only Second Generation, Born in the US, American.

Even if that were not the case, there are American families who were alive during the Slave Years who had nothing to do with slavery.

So how do you put in place a system of affirmative action that must be paid for by taxes that doesn't levy a higher tax burden to those innocent of the slave trade?

To me that's a bit like a family suing me for reparation because my grandfather shot their grandfather during the Korean War. Why should I be expected to be responsible for something that happened long before I was a glint in the milkman's eye?

[smileyeagle1021]

But what about me? No one in my family has ever owned slaves. As a matter of fact, from the time America was founded until just before WWII, no member of my ancestors ever set foot in the US. I am only Second Generation, Born in the US, American.

My mom has a story from when she was in college (she's second generation), a black student came up to her and demanded to borrow her car as part of her reparations for slavery. My mom went Erin Brockovich on her and pointed out that her family hadn't even come to the United States until 1920, and that during the civil war her ancestors were in Scotland, a nation that did not support England's politicians who were considering aiding the confederacy.

[Plaidman]

Perhaps this is why, contrary to popular belief, research indicates that people of color are actually reluctant to allege racism, be it on the job, or in schools, or anywhere else. Far from “playing the race card” at the drop of a hat, it is actually the case (again, according to scholarly investigation, as opposed to the conventional wisdom of the white public), that black and brown folks typically “stuff” their experiences with discrimination and racism, only making an allegation of such treatment after many, many incidents have transpired, about which they said nothing for fear of being ignored or attacked

HA HA HA HA HA AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! That is the biggest full of crap ever.

Or maybe I'm just one of the unlucky ones that just happened to have only customers that do do it at the drop of a hat.

I mean, I wont' give a list, but I was called racist for drinking fucking SODA at work. Because that MEANT I was watching him, because why else would I be drinking soda at work.

Maybe because you are a wannabe thief, who was attempting to stuff condoms in your pocket, but gave up after I told you to stop trying to open the packaging.


Or the the time I wouldn't hand over $100 dollars in lottery before the guy paid. I mean, I must be racist. Why else would he be screaming that?


Not putting cartons of cigs on the counter? Yep. Plaidman is one big racist bastard, seeing as he does that to everybody, regardless of skin color.

Not letting her use bathroom despite several signs saying NO RESTROOMS, not EVEN FOR CUSTOMERS. Even though I told her the donut shop that is twenty feet from our store does have a public bathroom? Yep. I am so racist.

Let's not forget the time I card people for beer or cigs. I'm such a racist asshole to dare do my job.


Hell, even filling out incident reports on theft, if a customer dares see me writing one that says RACE: Black, OMG! So racist, because I'm writing on a man that stole who was black, that is such a total racist attack because the man must have never stolen, and I'm just saying he did because he is black. (Despite it being on camera).



No. Me? I must be racist. Otherwise, none of the above would never happen if people of other racists are very unwilling to claim the race card unless they were given very good proof that I was racist.



I mean, I learned something. All those times of doing my job. All those times of writing reports on theft. All those times of calling police. It was because I hate people of other races besides me. Wow.



(If anyone hadn't realized it by now, I'm being very sarcastic).

[ebonyknight]

Hmmmm.....

Well let me chime in. I think it is a matter of perspective. For quite a few black people as ridiculous these stories sound to you of a "lighter" complexion, they may legitimately believe it's true.

My father would constantly tell me about how never to trust white people, this and that. Most of the time I ignored him, because I have never had any issues. But sometimes your parents teachings (as wrong or right as the may be) stick with you. I have had plenty of times I believe that I have been wronged because of my skin color.

Difference between me and some of my darker cousins, is that I live fairly well, so I blow it off. Other "loud" people, do not have it as well and were brought up to stand up for themselves or they did without. Similar to if you don't eat fast enough in a large family, you might go a little hungry.

Now....this happened to me this weekend at Colonial Williamsburg in Virginia. The town was having historical recreation events. People dressed up in period garb, recreating history, treating the customers as if they were also "in period". No this isn't going where you think it's going.

I was watching some such performance outdoors. It was hot and sunny and the benches were taken up. So I decided to plop myself down on an incline on a slight hill, under the shade of a tree. So I am sitting there watching the performance and this white lady with two children walks up. She stands in front of me, looks back at me and continues to stand directly in front of my view, completely blocking my view of the person acting?!?!?

I am puzzled. I in a moderately toned voice say "ma'am". She looks at me and I motion with two fingers that she is blocking me. She doesn't apologize and moves over three or four steps, getting out of my line of sight. After a minute she turns and asks if I can see. I nod. After a few minutes she leaves.

Now I have to ask myself, did she see me and saw a black person and decide that he won't say anything to me and dismiss me or was she just a generally rude person? I must admit, I believe that race had something to do with it as knee jerk as it sounds. To you, your first assumption probably would be just plain rudeness with no racial overtones. Truth is never absolute, it's about perception.

Now, earlier that day. I was checking into the hotel. The agents were busy and I saw a rather large black woman looking at brochures off to the side. I walked up off to the side of her and one of the clerks called out to me that she could help. I walked up and got help. The lady that was "waiting" then blurted out very loudly, "Am I not here??? Am I not going to be helped??".

From my perspective that was uncalled for, because to me it looked like she was just browsing not waiting in line (as was the same impression that the clerks had). I am pretty sure I know what the lady was thinking by her loudness and attitude. Rude and uncalled for. BUT to her, I am sure she thought she was being racially slighted, despite the fact that I was just helped. Again, logically not sound.

My point being from all of this, is that don't assume that when someone pulls the race card, they are just trying to "get over", but may have a (excuse the pun) colored view of life. Or they may feel that they have been racially slighted. Considering the messages we get from the media and news in this country, it's not hard to have a jaded view of whites.

[Plaidman]

I never said racism doesn't exist. Some of the stories you mentioned made me think racism did have a part in it.


But how is it, that if I refuse to break a law makes me a racist?

How does it make me a racist, if I call you on commiting a crime WHILE YOUR DOING IT.

How does it make me a racist, for DRINKING A GODDAMN SODA?!

How does it make me a racist, for not giving someone a hundred dollars in lottery, without him giving anything to me that was even a hint of payment?

Racism does exist. Even in minor forms. But if your screaming at a clerk for doing his job, if your screaming at a kid for daring to run ahead of you because it's running towards candy and not getting in line, if you belive every single action every does is a direct attack on you because of your skin color, then you never ever had real racism ever dealt with you. I've talked to people of other races, from other countries, where they will be killed on sight because of their race. I've had people require to hide their religion, or they will be tortured. (Religous hate is the same as Racism to me). So no, if you think that the clerk is drinking a soda, or treating everyone the same by following the law of carding you, it is not racism to do that. It would be racism to allow you to break the law and buy beer at 16 years old because the poor clerk is so afraid of being labled a racist for daring to card you.


Their is a world of difference between real racism, and people doing everyday acts.