CS and "race card" threads

[Hyena Dandy]

See, I agree, there are people who will assume that following company policy is racist. And if they've been brought up to believe that they're going to be discriminated against because they're black, so that's how they're behaving, they're being racist. Its tiptoeing around the issue to say that the assumption isn't racist.

And Ebony's story raises an intriguing point. People frequently do behave that way because they've been raised to behave that way. If you've been raised to assume you'll be discriminated against by white people, then you've been given a racist upbringing, just the same as if you've been raised to believe black people are inferior. I don't necessarily assume someone who plays the race card is trying to get one over on me. They might very well assume that I'm discriminating against them. Its a racist behavior.

As far as I'm concerned, making any decision based on race is a racist behavior. Whether that's to assume you've been discriminated against, or the decision to make that discrimination. If you wouldn't make the same assumption of the person was the same race as you, then its racist. But there's two caveats

1) You might really feel discriminated against, which is why I never think people are trying to put one over on me.

and

2) You're sometimes right.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Please allow me to respond in the following way:

1) Just because you feel discriminated against, doesn't mean it's actually happening.

and

2) If I shoot someone once a week, I'll eventually shoot someone that deserves to be shot. That in no way excuses shooting people almost at random, though.

[Hyena Dandy]

Please allow me to respond in the following way:

1) Just because you feel discriminated against, doesn't mean it's actually happening.

and

2) If I shoot someone once a week, I'll eventually shoot someone that deserves to be shot. That in no way excuses shooting people almost at random, though.

Oh, I was in no way trying to say that its JUSTIFIED. I was just saying why it continues happening.

[ebonyknight]

I am assuming that your response was directed towards me.

I never said racism doesn't exist. Some of the stories you mentioned made me think racism did have a part in it.

Logically, I think the woman standing in front of me wasn't racism. Just an act of rudeness. But I do think that if I was another white person, she may not have acted so "unthoughtful". Does that make it racism? Depends on how you define "racism" vs prejudice.

But how is it, that if I refuse to break a law makes me a racist?

How does it make me a racist, if I call you on commiting a crime WHILE YOUR DOING IT.

How does it make me a racist, for DRINKING A GODDAMN SODA?!

How does it make me a racist, for not giving someone a hundred dollars in lottery, without him giving anything to me that was even a hint of payment?

Racism does exist. Even in minor forms. But if your screaming at a clerk for doing his job, if your screaming at a kid for daring to run ahead of you because it's running towards candy and not getting in line, if you belive every single action every does is a direct attack on you because of your skin color, then you never ever had real racism ever dealt with you. I've talked to people of other races, from other countries, where they will be killed on sight because of their race. I've had people require to hide their religion, or they will be tortured. (Religous hate is the same as Racism to me). So no, if you think that the clerk is drinking a soda, or treating everyone the same by following the law of carding you, it is not racism to do that. It would be racism to allow you to break the law and buy beer at 16 years old because the poor clerk is so afraid of being labled a racist for daring to card you.


Their is a world of difference between real racism, and people doing everyday acts.

It's obvious you are very angry about this. My original point was for one of understanding. Not necessarily, acceptance, but of some empathy.

These people don't know you and (despite their statements to the contrary) are not personally attacking you. They were overall, just raised wrong. They may have had a bad day. They may have just been the victim of legitimate racism lately and you were just a convenient scapegoat. Any number of things.

My point is, that sometimes you just have to let things roll off your back, especially when you deal with the public. Just as I did when that woman "slighted" me. I have seen people act most irrationally when food is involved. I think that servers and people in the fast food industry will agree. When food is involved, people can act very irrationally, act just as despicably, but you don't tend to take that as personally as someone "playing the race card".

Case in point, later during my stay I saw that same loud, black lady again and she acted very cordially and polite under other circumstances when I saw her again.

It's very EASY to get a jaded view of people. Just as that woman assumed that she was being discriminated against because she was slighted, it is just as easy for you to become jaded because of these (I assume few) incidents. I don't like how I was treated. She didn't like how she was treated and you don't like how you were treated. But it comes down to the fact that you have a job where you (inevitably) will deal with assholes, difficult people and clueless people.

If you see people as just that PEOPLE (not as "insert your label here"), as complex, irrational and illogical as they may be, then it is easier to get through the day and not let it get to you. Are there people who are assholes, racist, race card players and race baiters, yes. REGARDLESS of what you do or don't do, that ain't gonna change. The question is are you going to let these petty people and attitudes get to you? Well?

The President KNOWS there are plenty of people who don't recognize him as President because of one simple fact. They see him as a nigger. They may say that it's because he's a Muslim or that he doesn't have a birth certificate or he led us into Afghanistan, etc, but we know that at least some of those irrational people just see him as one regardless of his status or accomplishments. BUT, I am sure that he doesn't let it cloud his judgment or get to him, because it's 1. unproductive, 2. gets in the way of getting the job done and 3. (Most importantly) Can ruin your positive outlook on life.

Example of people being people. I didn't vote for Obama...surprised? I voted third party because I believed that he would just be the same old politician as the rest and I was right. In fact, he's turning out worse than Bush in some respects.

Don't let people turn you bitter. I have seen it happen more often than I like.

[Exaspera]

I find this thread to be both interesting and insightful!

When I lived in San Antonio (white 45%, Hispanic 55%), I was told by a Hispanic woman who headed a non-profit there that All white people were racist because they had all of the power, and that all minorities weren't racist at all. She doesn't know a thing about me! That was racist in itself!

I guess that about the only thing I dislike intensely (hate taking too much energy) is entitlement.

[Plaidman]

It's obvious you are very angry about this. My original point was for one of understanding. Not necessarily, acceptance, but of some empathy.

These people don't know you and (despite their statements to the contrary) are not personally attacking you. They were overall, just raised wrong. They may have had a bad day. They may have just been the victim of legitimate racism lately and you were just a convenient scapegoat. Any number of things..

Right. So they very thing they are angry about, they decide to use that acts against me? Even though I did nothing to them to trigger that? Being raise /wrong/ is no excuse. Sorry. People in this day and age do know the difference between right and wrong, and can choose to go against what they are /raised/ to do. If everyone was required to do how they were /raised/ then we'd never have any process. In anycase, to have some empathy towards them? Why? They have none towards me. I have plenty as it was to give to others. I'm very empathic, sometimes too much. (Try going nuts as a kid because you honestly belived every one of your toys were alive, and their feelings were constanly being hurt because you wouldn't play with them, and so you spent vast majority of time trying to play with every single toy so they wouldn't be hurt).
There are legitimate racists out there. Then there are people who belive every fucking /slight/ or better yet, lack of power over anything MUST be a racist attack on them. Such as various asshole customers who belive that since they are a different race then me, I must never ask for their ID, and they are perfectly legally allowed to buy beer at 15 years old. Because If I dare ask for their ID, it's because I'm racist and that's not allowed!

Example of people being people. I didn't vote for Obama...surprised? I voted third party because I believed that he would just be the same old politician as the rest and I was right. In fact, he's turning out worse than Bush in some respects..

Wasn't aware that all black people were required to Vote for Obama. No. I'm not surprised at all. You are not the first, nor the only black person to not vote for Obama. A family member voted for McCain. Are you surprised by that? Or are you more surprised that a black woman would marry a white guy? She lost alot of respect from her friends and blood family for daring to vote for someone other then Obama. Despite her always have been a republican.

Don't let people turn you bitter. I have seen it happen more often than I like.

Far too late for that, if you have read any of my various posts, you already know how much people have made me bitter.


I don't know racism in terms of being anything other then white. I have dealt with various races hating me for being white. But I've had far far more people hate me based on how I look. Stares, look of disgust, like I'm somekind of contagious creature that is beneath them for the simple fact I have many tumors covering me, and one eye that is much larger then the other.

I do know stories of racism from family though. One would turn in papers and just get an F. Even though the answers were exactly the same answers as the person who got all the same. The teacher flat out told her (Though this was over twenty years ago) that her kind never got any right, so he wasn't even going to waste his time looking at it.

Or even better, my step mom would go in to a fancysmacy restraunt once while dad was parking the car and ask for a table for 4. Waiter told her it be at least an hour if not more, as they were very very busy and many many people were in line. She said fine, she'll go somewhere else. Her husband, (My father) came in and ask for a table of four, and he was seated right away. He called in stepmom to bring in the kids, and the waiter tried to stop her by telling her that again, very busy. She mentioned it's no problem as her husband got a table and sat down next to dad with thier kids. (I wish I was there to see that asshole's face when he saw that). That above is a fairly common thing too. (They had a name for it, I forget it)

So no. Me asking for someone ID is not a racist act, it should never even be thought as racism.

Me writing a incident report because a black man ran out with a couple of 12 packs of beer is not me being racist and shouldn't be thought of it.

So no. I have no fucking /empathy/ for assholes who decide to try to get free stuff, or get me into trouble because I breath wrong to them and it racist towards them. These people do NOT know what racism is at all, if they think those acts are what people fought to stop two centries ago. If they were raised to proclaim YOUR RACIST at every person of different color because they aren't treated like they are Gods, then they are the racists themselves, and don't deserve any amount of respect from me at all.

I treat all people with respect and care, because I KNOW first hand what its like to be treated like shit because of how one looks. So if your coming to me with an asshole behavior, then I know that your just an asshole, and don't deserve to be treated any better.


Also: Don't give any of that bullshit about "You need to earn their respect".
Because honestly? That is the stupidest thing ever muttered, because that always means that "I get to treat you like shit, until I think your worthy of being treated otherwise"

Rather then the otherwise of "I'll be awesome to you, until you act like a shithead, then I'll lose respect for you" which is how it's suppose to be. Since they treat me like shit, I'm not going to even pretend to care about them.

[The Shadow]

Here's a video from ABC's What Would You Do? called "Shopping While Black".

It's a dramatization, sure. But it's based on the real experiences of people of colour.

[blas87]

I've been accused of being racist because I find myself only attracted to white males. So I'm used to it. If you want to call it racist, fine by me. I consider it more of a preference, like blondes or brunettes, skinny people or larger people.

Not that I don't like darker colored skin, in fact I go out of my own way to cover my natural flourescent skin, I just don't find myself attracted to men of other races or backgrounds.

[ZedOmega]

You'd be surprised how playing the race card and just being a plain old dick go hand-in-hand, though. It's happened more times over my long and not-so-illustrious job history than I care to think about.

The first incident was back when I was a CSR for a gas station whose name rhymes with 'hex, mon'. I caught an old black woman with a beer in her pocket as she was walking out. The short of the story was that I asked her to wait where she was for a moment while I checked our cooler, found nothing missing, and sure enough, she blew up. Racist accusations, which I tried to counter by asking who the hell walks into a convenience store with an unopened beer in their pocket. Eventually it escalated to a point where my coworker was laughing at the sheer absurdity of it all (which was her mistake right there) and the woman turning around and saying something along the lines of 'you won't think it's funny when someone shoots your ass'. That's about the point the police showed up. I explained what happened, she got hauled off in handcuffs, and they brought her back inside long enough for me to verbally ban her from the store.

Another incident that sticks out in my mind was one from a couple of years ago at the bar. It happened before I showed up for work, but my manager was nice enough to let me know what happened. Someone showed up right when we opened, and I don't know how frequently he was ordering and finishing his drinks, but eventually he got asked to leave for severe drunkenness. He blurted out an accusation of racism toward Mexicans, which was funny as hell because half the staff and most of our customers in the bar at the time are Mexican. The crowd started laughing at him and he took off, pissed.

I don't know what it is about people that makes them throw down a race card when they don't get their way. Usually it fails, though, and when I get it played on me, the conversation always ends like this:

SC: You're a fucking racist!
Me: I'm not racist, I'm just prejudiced against assholes. Have a nice get the fuck out.

[Canarr]

Not race as a topic, but male/female double standard; so I figured, that should fit here as well.

In a thread over at CS on a male customer propositioning a female cashier, there was a comment on how that's inappropriate to do/say to a female cashier. Female. So, harassing a male is okay?

I thought about that a bit, and I feel that harassment of men is something that's not really seen in our society - meaning, people don't believe it happens. It's like the old joke:

What's a man talking dirty to a woman? Harassment.
What's a woman talking dirty to a man? $3,99 a minute.

So, what do you think? Is that so, or am I wrong? Is it only harassment when it's happening to a woman, and men should just be glad they're getting female attention?

[Mytical]

First off let me say..for all purposes I look like a white male. I am straight, and I am middle aged. I have yet to see this 'privilege' everybody tells me white, middle aged, heterosexuals have. Anywhere.

My family was dirt poor when I was growing up. We have/had no 'contacts' of rich people we could go to if we were in need. To get a job, or be given ANYTHING for that matter. What we had, we had to fight and scratch for it. Even as children we were doing the 'sunup to sundown' work thing (farm). I never asked for any assistance of any kind.

I can now get on disability (government had already said "you qualify" I told them to stuff the monthly payments). I am actually a descendant of the Blackfoot (Native American Tribe), but I just don't look it.

I am always getting the "You white people owe us.." <fill in the blank>.

Did bad things happen? Absolutely. Including to my people. I don't expect the world to 'owe' me for it, however. Anybody remember how some of the Native Americans were treated? Anybody? It's in the past, and not a person alive today had anything to do with it. So why would they owe me anything?

Because I LOOK white though, I can tell you first hand..the playing field has shifted to being uneven the other way now. If I am as qualified as any other applicant for a job..I will not get it. Doesn't matter if they are a minority, or female. It just won't happen.

Because I am not a member of the 'boys club' (ie the elite wealthy), nor do I pull out the 'race card'. Not every white male is a member of the 'boys club' that everybody think makes us privileged. Some whites are very poor, I know shocking right?

I am not a racist, nor a sexist. I would love a totally even playing field. I just have nothing to do with any slavery or any of holding women back. I've never done anything to anybody. Yet I get all kinds of flack for things that happened. I get discriminated against..though nobody will ever admit it, because of my perceived race, and my actual sex. Because hey..I have that boys club I can go to to get what I need. Right?

Racism and sexism do exist even today. Sometimes to the point where it is reversed. I know a LOT of people will hate me for these comments. I accept that. Equal rights is absolutely the right thing, but just make sure that it doesn't go too far the OTHER way either.

[KnitShoni]

Problem is, Mytical, many who are not/don't look white will just say, "welcome to the club." They don't understand that, just because it's happening to white (looking) people now doesn't automatically make it OK. They will be looking at it from the perspective of, "Well, now that it's happening to you guys, maybe you won't be so quick to do it to us."

[Eisa]

Not race as a topic, but male/female double standard; so I figured, that should fit here as well.

In a thread over at CS on a male customer propositioning a female cashier, there was a comment on how that's inappropriate to do/say to a female cashier. Female. So, harassing a male is okay?

I thought about that a bit, and I feel that harassment of men is something that's not really seen in our society - meaning, people don't believe it happens. It's like the old joke:

What's a man talking dirty to a woman? Harassment.
What's a woman talking dirty to a man? $3,99 a minute.

So, what do you think? Is that so, or am I wrong? Is it only harassment when it's happening to a woman, and men should just be glad they're getting female attention?

It's harassment no matter who it happens to. I hate the double standard. I mean, I'm a girl, too, but I don't think it's fair at all that it's seemingly "ok" in society to harass a guy. Hey, just like girls can feel uncomfortable and not want it...guys can feel the SAME WAY. Sheesh.

[draco664]

I'll be dull and boring, and keep using the same example I always bring out. Aboriginal person decides he wants to be a mechanic. He doesn't have the grades, so he 'pulls the race card', and gets into the course as an ATSI student (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander) - fully funded scholarship. He pulls out of the course only a month or 2 in - thus meaning someone else was unable to get into the course, and it was too late to start it from that point. Said Aboriginal student just couldn't deal with it. Even though academically this was already known, he still got in based purely on race.

Similarly, I knew when I was on the dole, if I desperately needed social security money, I'd have to run through hoops. I also know, that if I was ATSI, then I'd get that money pretty much straight away.

So - that raises the question... was I in any lesser need than anyone else, at that time?

When a person is in need, then a person is in need - and race, creed, colour, sex, etc etc etc, should have no bearing on the subject

Well, in regards to Aboriginality and benefits, a prominent conservative columnist/blogger for Australia's biggest newspaper is being sued for columns he wrote about this very topic. Columns are here and here.

Essentially, he says that there are people claiming to be Aboriginal (despite having less than a quarter of aboriginal heritage) in order to claim benefits they would not otherwise be entitled to. Ho hum, it's not anything that a lot of people already know. In my second year at university I had a class with a stunning blond-haired, blue eyed beauty, who was proud of the fact that she claimed ABStudy.

What he is being sued for is the fact that he actually *named* some of these people, printed their photo, and listed what Aboriginal benefits they have claimed/received - one of them being a white man who received a scholarship intended for a black woman.

His point, which a lot of the "professional offense takers" have completely missed, is that resources and funds set up to assist those who really need help are being usurped by those who don't need it, simply because they can.