Arrested for not respecting a cop's authority

[draco664]

Clip.

Black dude was drinking a can of iced tea in the parking lot of a convenience store when a guy who claimed he was a police officer came over and demanded to know what he was drinking.

Black guy read out the ingredients, but the cop kept trying to snatch the can. Guy refused to hand over the can and was told to leave as he was trespassing. Black guy asked why he was a trespasser, as he was actually a customer, and refused to leave.

So the cop arrests him.

[Nyoibo]

Sounds like a lawsuit about to happen

[Rageaholic]

Aaaand this is why people don't trust cops.

[Panacea]

Actually, the cop was probably right to arrest the guy.

It's illegal to drink alcohol in public in most places. Sounds to me like the cop was conducting a lawful investigation into whether or not that was happening; the guy was obstructing the investigation by being a smart ass.

It is also illegal to loiter in a c store parking lot in most jurisdictions.

If the drink was iced tea and not a 40 oz of beer, show the cop the can and move on your way. This guy decided he was going to be a dick (reading the ingredients shows he wanted to push some buttons), and when you're a dick to a cop you should not be surprised if you get arrested.

[Nekojin]

Did you watch the video, Panacea? The police officer isn't in uniform; the dude was well within his rights to refuse. Any jerk with an authority complex can claim to be a police officer, and quite a few scams start out this way. Moreover, he DID show the can to the police officer - it's not as though he was hiding the can at all.

The police officer violated procedure on quite a few counts.

[Gravekeeper]

Actually, the cop was probably right to arrest the guy.

The cop is not in uniform and shows no ID until the moment right before he arrests the guy. He also does show him the can pretty clearly, he just won't hand it over to some unidentified dude in a parking lot claiming to be a cop. Oh, and he threatens to arrest the guy filming him too.

Though my favourite part is when an actual drunk guy rolls up on the cop from behind and starts rapping, but the cop ignores him and lets him leave >.>

[Greenday]

Actually, the cop was probably right to arrest the guy.

It's illegal to drink alcohol in public in most places. Sounds to me like the cop was conducting a lawful investigation into whether or not that was happening; the guy was obstructing the investigation by being a smart ass.

It is also illegal to loiter in a c store parking lot in most jurisdictions.

If the drink was iced tea and not a 40 oz of beer, show the cop the can and move on your way. This guy decided he was going to be a dick (reading the ingredients shows he wanted to push some buttons), and when you're a dick to a cop you should not be surprised if you get arrested.

While something bothers me about this video, the cop had no legal standing to arrest the guy. If it's true he purchased the iced tea at the store, he is within his rights to hang out in front of the store while drinking it. That's not loitering since he's a customer.

Also, there was no probable cause to interrogate him on the spot and search his drink. So really, the cop has no legal standing to back him up on this one.

[Panacea]

Did you watch the video, Panacea? .

Actually, I didn't. I don't like watching video clips; too time consuming when I can read about it faster.

So I went back and watched it. And I stand by everything I said in my first post.

What I saw was a heavily edited video. The initial encounter with the cop is not shown. It is clear from the video that the start of the encounter started some time before the first scene in the video.

How do I know this?

Because the video starts out steady and calm. The guy had been videoing the encounter for awhile. He hadn't just whipped the camera out. So the first part of the encounter is not shown. When the cop shows his badge he's re-confirming his identity, not showing it for the first time.

The cop had the right to investigate a possible drinking in public violation. The guy gives the cop lip. That's obstruction. Believe it or not, many people who drink in public will use containers that have been emptied, and then refill them with alcohol . . . and the man in question admits being there to buy alcohol. The cop wanted to smell the drink.

As for the rapping dude, there is nothing about his behavior that makes him "obviously drunk." He's just some guy trying to get attention and acting the fool in public for a cheap laugh. That's why the cop ignored him.

Even if you are a customer, you can't loiter in the parking lot after you've made your purchase. You have to leave. These signs are posted at every c store like this one I've ever been to. So that argument is bogus, too.

What I see in this video is a cop doing his job, and a buddy who's trying to manufacture "evidence" to get his friend out of a jam he got himself into.

Good luck with that.

[Gravekeeper]

Because the video starts out steady and calm. The guy had been videoing the encounter for awhile. He hadn't just whipped the camera out. So the first part of the encounter is not shown. When the cop shows his badge he's re-confirming his identity, not showing it for the first time.

You can hear the cop call out to him at the beginning of the video as he walks over. There are no cuts before that and there are no edits as every clip pretty much picks up right on the last frame.

The cop had the right to investigate a possible drinking in public violation. The guy gives the cop lip. That's obstruction. Believe it or not, many people who drink in public will use containers that have been emptied, and then refill them with alcohol . . . and the man in question admits being there to buy alcohol. The cop wanted to smell the drink.

The cop demanded it so he could "read the ingredients", not smell it.

The guy was charged with trespassing, obstruction and resisting arrest. Not possession of alcohol or open container as there was none. Trespassing is questionable as well. Would the officer not require the store to declare the guy was trespassing? As otherwise he has full right to be on the premise. An officer cannot say you're trespassing if the property owner doesn't agree with him. -.-

The cop also threatened the camera man with trespassing.

Even if you are a customer, you can't loiter in the parking lot after you've made your purchase. You have to leave. These signs are posted at every c store like this one I've ever been to. So that argument is bogus, too.

I have never, ever seen such a sign ever. Store's set a maximum time you can be in the parking lot, but its typically a matter of 1-2 hours and it will be posted if such a limit exists.

What I see in this video is a cop doing his job, and a buddy who's trying to manufacture "evidence" to get his friend out of a jam he got himself into.

I see an uncover officer failing to identify himself ( I was wrong, he doesn't show his ID, he actually flashed his handcuffs ). Then coming up with some other charge to pin the guy for not doing what he said. He does not properly identify himself until the moment before he arrests him after several demands for his ID/Badge number.

Was the guy obnoxious? Sure. But the cop still fucked this one up too.

[draco664]

Actually, I didn't. I don't like watching video clips; too time consuming when I can read about it faster.

So I went back and watched it. And I stand by everything I said in my first post.

What I saw was a heavily edited video. The initial encounter with the cop is not shown. It is clear from the video that the start of the encounter started some time before the first scene in the video.

How do I know this?

Because the video starts out steady and calm. The guy had been videoing the encounter for awhile. He hadn't just whipped the camera out. So the first part of the encounter is not shown. When the cop shows his badge he's re-confirming his identity, not showing it for the first time.

That's not my impression. The guys filming didn't know he was a cop until he claimed to be the "po-leese".

The cop had the right to investigate a possible drinking in public violation. The guy gives the cop lip. That's obstruction. Believe it or not, many people who drink in public will use containers that have been emptied, and then refill them with alcohol . . . and the man in question admits being there to buy alcohol. The cop wanted to smell the drink.

And yet, at no point did he ask to smell the drink...

The black guy wasn't drunk - or acting in any way offensive. No swearing, no obnoxious behaviour, he was just hanging around with a friend drinking from a can of iced tea.

Now, I'm no lawyer, but I do believe that the cop's 'right' to investigate a drinking violation does require something called probable cause. He does not have the right to accost random people and demand to smell their drink unless he has a reasonable suspicion that it contains alcohol. And there's nothing in the video to give that impression.

That said, I may be wrong. It's been known to happen. Just ask my wife...

As for the rapping dude, there is nothing about his behavior that makes him "obviously drunk." He's just some guy trying to get attention and acting the fool in public for a cheap laugh. That's why the cop ignored him.

You can't have it both ways. If the cop is looking for people who might be drinking out of containers, ignoring someone obviously drunk wander up in the middle of the encounter makes it appear vindictive. And yes, the dude was obviously drunk. I wouldn't let someone acting like that drive.

As an aside, it was that drunk dude that made me think the video was a fake to start with. The encounter just seemed too scripted - sober guy accosted by cop for maybe drinking while a drunk guy gets a free pass.

Even if you are a customer, you can't loiter in the parking lot after you've made your purchase. You have to leave. These signs are posted at every c store like this one I've ever been to. So that argument is bogus, too.

Even if there were signs to that effect up, shouldn't it be the owner/manager making that call? I'm not sure that an owner of a store would want a random off-duty cop unilaterally declaring that paying customers were trespassing.

I do note also that the whole trespassing thing only really came up when the cop had nothing else to use to wave his dick about.

What I see in this video is a cop doing his job, and a buddy who's trying to manufacture "evidence" to get his friend out of a jam he got himself into.

Good luck with that.

Fair enough. I have a different opinion, obviously.

[Nekojin]

Actually, I didn't. I don't like watching video clips; too time consuming when I can read about it faster.

So I went back and watched it. And I stand by everything I said in my first post.

What I saw was a heavily edited video. The initial encounter with the cop is not shown. It is clear from the video that the start of the encounter started some time before the first scene in the video.

How do I know this?

Because the video starts out steady and calm. The guy had been videoing the encounter for awhile. He hadn't just whipped the camera out. So the first part of the encounter is not shown. When the cop shows his badge he's re-confirming his identity, not showing it for the first time.

This is specious logic, a post-hoc justification for a bad judgment call in the first place (and, by the way, when you're making such broad judgments without actually viewing the evidence, it's generally considered good form to say so - "I didn't watch the video, but..." - when you don't, it's generally assumed that you DID watch the video). You're rationalizing backward from your previous decision, trying to justify it by making excuses.

The cop had the right to investigate a possible drinking in public violation.

Assumes facts not in evidence - police need probable cause, especially undercover police.

The guy gives the cop lip. That's obstruction.

No, it's not. It cannot be obstruction of justice until the police officer adequately identifies himself. I didn't see a badge at any point in the video.

Believe it or not, many people who drink in public will use containers that have been emptied, and then refill them with alcohol . . . and the man in question admits being there to buy alcohol. The cop wanted to smell the drink.

Another post-hoc rationalization which is not supported by the video, as Gravekeeper pointed out.

Even if you are a customer, you can't loiter in the parking lot after you've made your purchase. You have to leave. These signs are posted at every c store like this one I've ever been to. So that argument is bogus, too.

There's a difference between being at a location longer than the bare minimum needed to perform a transaction, and loitering. Loitering, like everything else in the legal world, has a very specific definition. While this definition does vary slightly from location to location, one of the common elements is that the authorities need to instruct the person to leave, and give them time to do so. That didn't happen here. It's not loitering.

What I see in this video is a cop doing his job, and a buddy who's trying to manufacture "evidence" to get his friend out of a jam he got himself into.

Good luck with that.

For this to be the case, the friend with the camera would have needed to know ahead of time that the police officer was going to arrest him. Now, I'll admit, my first response to seeing a scene like this caught on camera is, "Why was the guy with the camera rolling film?" But there ARE legitimate answers to that question, other possibilities than just "getting one over on tha man!"

[Gravekeeper]

But there ARE legitimate answers to that question, other possibilities than just "getting one over on tha man!"

Well, the fact these guys have a Youtube channel is explanation enough, really. -.-

[Aethian]

If someone came up to me claiming to be a cop and not showing any type of id, I would refuse to comply. Specially if I'm doing nothing to harm anyone. Now if a store asked me to move along and I hadn't then yea I might think that person might be a cop.

I think the cop was being a douche.

[siead_lietrathua]

For this to be the case, the friend with the camera would have needed to know ahead of time that the police officer was going to arrest him. Now, I'll admit, my first response to seeing a scene like this caught on camera is, "Why was the guy with the camera rolling film?" But there ARE legitimate answers to that question, other possibilities than just "getting one over on tha man!"

Well, the fact these guys have a Youtube channel is explanation enough, really. -.-

agreed. the video started with the guy making comments along the line of himself "chilling" while drinking an Arizona and waiting for his boys. standard video-blog stuff that gets uploaded bazillions of times to youtube. with digital technology, and potential "internet fame", some people film EVERYTHING. a running camera happening to catch something is no longer strange to me.

[Rageaholic]

Just watched the video. Typical cop assholery. First they find some stupid little law to hassle you over then they charge you with some other BS for resisting. Cops become the bad guys when they hassle people over such assine things.