Don't vaccinate your kids? No childcare!

[fireheart17]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/profes...-1226639071911

Quick background: if you've ever had Gardrasil or its other counterpart for older women, you can thank this guy. (and yes I've had it)

This is somewhat an opinion piece, somewhat an actual debate piece. I can see where he's coming from, although the article doesn't mention kids who CAN'T be vaccinated. I can understand cases where children CAN'T be vaccinated due to various illnesses. I do believe that he's referring to the parents who DON'T vaccinate their kids due to whatever conspiracy theory is popular at the moment.

Personally? I agree with him. While childcare centres (along with schools) are known for being breeding grounds for various illnesses, there shouldn't be any reason why a child is not vaccinated apart from the reasons I mentioned above. A lot of the reasons behind why a child isn't vaccinated for non-medical reasons tend to be incorrect, out of date, based on the US/UK schedule of vaccination (for the US, substitute other countries) or implausible.

Thoughts?

[anakhouri]

I really, really hate to think of kids being denied childcare over this, but in my heart of hearts...I don't want my kid to spend great amounts of time with unvaccinated children. He's had his of course, but that's not a guarantee he won't catch whooping cough, and having unvaccinated kids around is going to up those chances. If all kids are required to be vaccinated before they attend daycare, herd immunity pretty much ensures everyone's safety.

In the US a lot of daycares are privately run, so the owners could conceivably deny service to unvaccinated kids (unless this somehow falls under discrimanatory practices, but since it's a choice and not a religion or ethnicity I don't think it would).

Sorry to say, my mother was telling me about her co-worker, who sounded like a lovely, smart, creative, hardworking person...but when she mentioned that this co-worker did not have her kids vaccinated, my opinion of her dropped sharply. Usually I am fine with whatever choices people want to make, but when their choices are not based anywhere in reality and negatively affect their children, I begin to have a problem.

[PepperElf]

CAN'T be vaccinated due to various illnesses

or allergies. i'm not sure about the regular vaccinations, but i had a coworker who was allergic to eggs so he was always excused from getting the mandatory flu vaccination.


although this ... hmm. this could have some serious implications.

although i personally don't agree with the idea of not vaccinating children, i do know that there are people who are religiously against vaccination.

So the notion that their children could be punished and denied medical care because of this rather... damning.


I mean it's not even a "get this done or you won't get insured" ... it's "get this done or you lose all rights to even SEE a doctor"

[Greenday]

Seeing as Australia isn't TOO drastically different from the US, they probably wouldn't be able to ban kids who didn't get vaccinated due to allergies. That'd be discrimination based on health reasons beyond their control.

[Kheldarson]

So the notion that their children could be punished and denied medical care because of this rather... damning.

I mean it's not even a "get this done or you won't get insured" ... it's "get this done or you lose all rights to even SEE a doctor"

I don't think that's what the professor is saying...he's saying "get this done or take care of your child at home", i.e. no daycare for you.

Now, I have seen articles from here in the States where pediatricians have asked parents to take their children elsewhere as the parents refuse to vaccinate and the doctor doesn't want to be partisan to their decision.

[s_stabeler]

or allergies. i'm not sure about the regular vaccinations, but i had a coworker who was allergic to eggs so he was always excused from getting the mandatory flu vaccination.


although this ... hmm. this could have some serious implications.

although i personally don't agree with the idea of not vaccinating children, i do know that there are people who are religiously against vaccination.

So the notion that their children could be punished and denied medical care because of this rather... damning.


I mean it's not even a "get this done or you won't get insured" ... it's "get this done or you lose all rights to even SEE a doctor"

it's childcare, not healthcare.

[BlaqueKatt]

Now, I have seen articles from here in the States where pediatricians have asked parents to take their children elsewhere as the parents refuse to vaccinate and the doctor doesn't want to be partisan to their decision.

Or expose those in the waiting room.

[Duelist925]

Or expose those in the waiting room.

Or hell, expose the kid without vaccines to all the sick kids in the waiting room.

[Panacea]

I mean it's not even a "get this done or you won't get insured" ... it's "get this done or you lose all rights to even SEE a doctor"

He's talking about daycare, not health care.

However, I don't think he's suggesting kids who have allergies would be subject to this; clearly the parents were willing to vaccinate when the allergy was discovered.

The idea is worth considering; it makes parents re-evaluate their priorities. It used to be herd immunity was enough to cover the few kids who were not vaccinated for religious or other reasons. But so many parents are now refusing vaccinations that we're seeing epidemics of measles, pertussis, and other diseases start to come back. Society has a vested interest to take action, particularly when the scientific evidence in favor of vaccination is so overwhelming.

[fireheart17]

Seeing as Australia isn't TOO drastically different from the US, they probably wouldn't be able to ban kids who didn't get vaccinated due to allergies. That'd be discrimination based on health reasons beyond their control.

Australian law covers these kids, since allergies are technically a disability.

Now, I have seen articles from here in the States where pediatricians have asked parents to take their children elsewhere as the parents refuse to vaccinate and the doctor doesn't want to be partisan to their decision.

Not sure I've heard of anything along those lines, but a doc can refuse to see patients based on that. 4-year-olds are also required to have a health checkup before they go to school. Usually this is done in conjunction with their 4-year-old vaccines.

The idea is worth considering; it makes parents re-evaluate their priorities. It used to be herd immunity was enough to cover the few kids who were not vaccinated for religious or other reasons. But so many parents are now refusing vaccinations that we're seeing epidemics of measles, pertussis, and other diseases start to come back. Society has a vested interest to take action, particularly when the scientific evidence in favor of vaccination is so overwhelming.

There have been cases of whooping cough going around quite a bit frequently, including at a school I did a prac at (no I didn't get it). There have been horror stories of babies who are WAY too young for a vaccine who've picked up whooping cough from an unvaccinated kid and died.

So the notion that their children could be punished and denied medical care because of this rather... damning.
I mean it's not even a "get this done or you won't get insured" ... it's "get this done or you lose all rights to even SEE a doctor"

Daycare, not healthcare. Although some people have suggested this for those who are refusing to vaccinate their kids.

There are no major religions that actually forbid vaccination: Islam and Judaism make exceptions for vaccines (against any of their rules), Catholics are encouraged to get the vaccines despite whatever they're made from and really, the only major issue with any of the vaccines at the moment is the HPV vaccine.

Basically the link to THAT vaccine (the HPV one) and religion is the idea that somehow being vaccinated with the HPV vaccine encourages sexual behaviour.
Mormons are also encouraged to vaccinate their kids too


As for "vaccination is linked to <x>" down here, immunisation is linked to the Family Tax Benefit (a welfare payment). If your kid isn't vaccinated, no payment for you. You CAN get around this by producing a letter from your doc verifying that your kid can't be vaccinated due to whatever reason or that you get a conscientious objector form. Part of the issue at the moment is the fact that the number of people who've submitted those forms has jumped from 900 to 30,000 over the last two years



And finally, they're talking about extending this to schools as well.

[Nyoibo]

About damn time

[BlaqueKatt]

There are no major religions that actually forbid vaccination: Islam and Judaism make exceptions for vaccines (against any of their rules),

Only one I can think of offhand that it would go directly against their beliefs would be Jainism. some fundamentalist Jainists won't even eat food that has been stored overnight because it would kill the microorganisms that have gathered and multiplied, so I'm guessing killing them for vaccines would be right out.

[Panacea]

Not sure I've heard of anything along those lines, but a doc can refuse to see patients based on that. 4-year-olds are also required to have a health checkup before they go to school. Usually this is done in conjunction with their 4-year-old vaccines.

I've heard of cases in the US where pediatricians have "fired" parents who refuse routine vaccinations based on vaccine denier nonsense. You have to be up to date on vaccines to go to school, though there are exceptions. Many school districts have started clamping down on parents who just don't bother to get the boosters.

There have been cases of whooping cough going around quite a bit frequently, including at a school I did a prac at (no I didn't get it). There have been horror stories of babies who are WAY too young for a vaccine who've picked up whooping cough from an unvaccinated kid and died.

Usually babies who get whooping cough (pertussis) get it from their mothers who were either never vaccinated, or need a booster. Boosters for new moms and their families is getting to be the norm in OB care, especially after an epidemic of cases in California.

Last year, I had to get a TDaP booster in order to take my students to clinic; the hospitals we partner with required it, not the college. The change came because we had an epidemic of whooping cough cases in a neighboring county, and the hospitals wanted to prevent a similar situation among hospital patients in our county. Made sense, and I had no problem with their logic. But I did have an issue: I'm allergic to tetanus vaccine. It's not an allergy to eggs; it's to the tetanus toxoid itself.

That didn't buy me a pass; it was the pertussis vaccine the hospitals insisted I have. Well, my doctor didn't have just the pertussis vaccine and didn't know if he could get it at a reasonable cost. So he suggested putting me on a course of steroids and antihistamines to stop any allergic reaction, which I did and everything came out OK (whew!). So I'm good for 10 years.

There are no major religions that actually forbid vaccination

When vaccination was first invented, there were actually preachers who said vaccines "undermined the will of God" by keeping people from getting sick, and urged people not to get vaccinated on that basis. There are still preachers who teach this in some Protestant sects.

The Taliban is claiming polio vaccination is an American plot to sterilize Muslims, and have killed medical people leading vaccination efforts, but the real reason for this is the CIA used a vaccination program as a smoke screen to track down Osama bin Laden and the Taliban fear a similar program will lead the US to their own hideouts.

But in Nigeria, Islamisists forbidding polio and measle vaccinations have led to outbreaks of both diseases in that country: hundreds have died.

As for "vaccination is linked to <x>" down here, immunisation is linked to the Family Tax Benefit (a welfare payment). If your kid isn't vaccinated, no payment for you. <snip>Part of the issue at the moment is the fact that the number of people who've submitted those forms has jumped from 900 to 30,000 over the last two years

We have a similar issue here in the US. People claiming religious exceptions when they're not actually religious have skyrocketed. They claim they have no choice but to lie because of the law . . . well duh! Vaccination is important, and irrational fear is not a reason not to get vaccinated. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...19819928_x.htm

[Grendus]

the only major issue with any of the vaccines at the moment is the HPV vaccine.

Basically the link to THAT vaccine (the HPV one) and religion is the idea that somehow being vaccinated with the HPV vaccine encourages sexual behaviour.

I have a larger issue with requiring that one because HPV is spread differently than other required vaccinations. Most of the other diseases we inoculate against are contracted accidentally, through the air, food, or broken skin. HPV, as I understand it, is an STI - it can only be contracted through intentional actions (or illegal ones, but let's not go there). It's not the idea that the vaccination will "encourage sexual behavior", it's the assumption that many or all of the girls required to get the vaccine will engage in reckless sexual activity that would put them at risk that I object to.

That said, I will probably have my future children vaccinated against that and everything else that is required or likely to infect them. I object to it being a requirement is all.

[fireheart17]

I have a larger issue with requiring that one because HPV is spread differently than other required vaccinations. Most of the other diseases we inoculate against are contracted accidentally, through the air, food, or broken skin. HPV, as I understand it, is an STI - it can only be contracted through intentional actions (or illegal ones, but let's not go there). It's not the idea that the vaccination will "encourage sexual behavior", it's the assumption that many or all of the girls required to get the vaccine will engage in reckless sexual activity that would put them at risk that I object to.

That said, I will probably have my future children vaccinated against that and everything else that is required or likely to infect them. I object to it being a requirement is all.

Which is why it's really only effective if you pair it with a bloody good sex education program. And not just looking at the biological/health stuff, but also the attitudes towards sex.

That said, I also had it drilled into me about five times when it first came out (I was among the first batch in my state to get vaccinated) that I STILL needed to have regular pap smears and that it wouldn't protect me from ALL cervical cancers or other problems. It was also repeated in issues of Cleo, Dolly, Girlfriend and Cosmopolitan. (Girlfriend and Dolly do regular "sealed sections" about contraception, pregnancy and STI's)

ETA: Unless you're referring to underage sex or pedophiles raping their victims, I'm not sure what exactly constitutes an "illegal" action that results in contracting one of those STI's. It could also be where you're from...