Don't vaccinate your kids? No childcare!

[JPD]

I have read several articles about vaccines over the years, in addition to taking a microbiology course, and several other biology courses as well. I think vaccination is a great thing, and am glad I live in a time where they exist for so many major illness. And while I have no documentation to back this up, I think that the current vaccine schedule for children puts to many to close together.
While I don't have kids yet, when I do have kids I plan on talking to both my spouse and my doctor about possible spreading out the vaccine schedule slightly for the children. Although if I was going to send my child to day-care, I would definitely make sure that they have all the vaccinations.

For those that use religious exemptions, are they required to provide some sort of documentation from a clergy member, or is it going by the fact that the parents are saying yes this is my belief?

If there is a record about a close relative having an averse reaction to a vaccine, I can see the parents view about not wanting to vaccinate in case that reaction is genetic, but that should be discussed with medical professionals, not based on the parents fears alone.

[Panacea]

And while I have no documentation to back this up, I think that the current vaccine schedule for children puts to many to close together.

The medical literature doesn't back you up on this. The U.S. Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) makes the vaccination schedule. The schedule is based on multiple factors, including how the immune system develops, and risks for specific diseases at specific age groups, and the number of booster shoots required to obtain full immunity (in the case of Hep B, 3 shots).

The Institute of Medicine, a highly respected quasi governmental body, did a study on these concerns and found there was no evidence that the vaccination schedule as it stands now is harmful.

Upon reviewing stakeholder concerns and scientific
literature regarding the entire childhood
immunization schedule, the IOM committee finds
no evidence that the schedule is unsafe. The committee’s
review did not reveal an evidence base
suggesting that the U.S. childhood immunization
schedule is linked to autoimmune diseases,
asthma, hypersensitivity, seizures, child developmental
disorders, learning or developmental disorders,
or attention deficit or disruptive disorders.
Existing mechanisms to detect safety signals—
including three major surveillance systems
of FDA-approved products maintained by the
CDC and a supplemental vaccine safety monitoring
initiative by the FDA—provide further confidence
that the current childhood immunization
schedule is safe.
Despite the reassuring available evidence, the
committee calls for continued study of the immunization
schedule using existing data systems (Institute of Medicine, 2013)

While I don't have kids yet, when I do have kids I plan on talking to both my spouse and my doctor about possible spreading out the vaccine schedule slightly for the children. Although if I was going to send my child to day-care, I would definitely make sure that they have all the vaccinations.

I always urge parents to discuss any concerns they have with their pediatrician. However, if your pediatrician goes along with this, it will be because he figures it's better to get them vaccinated than risk the parents refusing altogether rather than because he agrees that the schedule is too close together.

For those that use religious exemptions, are they required to provide some sort of documentation from a clergy member, or is it going by the fact that the parents are saying yes this is my belief?

Depends on the state you are in. Documentation that used to be required in some states is now unenforceable due to court rulings. A lot of parents lie, and public officials just take their word for it rather than fight it out in court.

That could always change. One major epidemic with high death rates could be all it takes for improvements in the law to put a stop to this (like getting rid of religious exemptions). But it'll probably take that for such a change to happen. As with most things, a lot of people have to die before government takes notice.

If there is a record about a close relative having an averse reaction to a vaccine, I can see the parents view about not wanting to vaccinate in case that reaction is genetic, but that should be discussed with medical professionals, not based on the parents fears alone.

What does adverse reaction to a vaccine mean to you? If it means autism, then the vaccines are completely, totally, and absolutely NOT TO BLAME and there is no reason to refuse vaccination.

Of course, there are risks to everything, but serious complications from vaccinations are extremely rare. At worst, most kids will just get a fever, be fussy for a day or two, then move on.

True allergies, of course, would preclude further boosters with that particular vaccine. In other words, an allergy to tetanus is no reason not to get vaccinated against polio or the MMR.

Egg allergies are pertinent only if the vaccine is made in eggs, in which case the doctor will either recommend an alternative not made with eggs or give the parents a pass on that particular vaccination.

[JPD]

What does adverse reaction to a vaccine mean to you? If it means autism, then the vaccines are completely, totally, and absolutely NOT TO BLAME and there is no reason to refuse vaccination.

I do know that autism is not linked to vaccines. I am talking about the extremely rare serious complications. While I don't have kids (or a husband) at the moment, if I did have one kid that ended up with that very very rare complication, I would have to think long and hard about vaccinating the others, even thought I would know it was emotion over ruling logic.

[BlaqueKatt]

it's the assumption that many or all of the girls required to get the vaccine will engage in reckless sexual activity that would put them at risk that I object to.

Even using a condom all the time, the HPV virus can be on other parts of the genitals and spread, and there is now evidence that it is also spread through "open mouth" kissing, resulting in mouth/throat cancer. French kissing isn't usually considered "risky behaviour". I'd actually say it's likely that yep, unless belonging to an extremely strict religion, 99.99% of them will engage in that behavior.

[Gravekeeper]

it's the assumption that many or all of the girls required to get the vaccine will engage in reckless sexual activity that would put them at risk that I object to.

Its exactly that sort of slut shaming implication that cause most the problems with teenagers and sex to begin with. Getting vaccinated doesn't mean you're a slut anymore than not getting the vaccine means you're certified celibate for life.

[Pixilated]

I keep seeing these hysterical anti-vaccine polemics on my FB page (primarily by one group) and I often wonder how much more they'd prefer another polio/smallpox/influenza epidemic ... I remember seeing a program about the 1918 Spanish influenza epidemic; one survivor said there were tiny caskets lined up in front of houses as far down the street as you could see.

[Nyoibo]

That's the problem, because all of these diseases were pretty much wiped out, no ones seen what a serious outbreak can do.

[fireheart17]

That's the problem, because all of these diseases were pretty much wiped out, no ones seen what a serious outbreak can do.

There's a story that I've heard of in several cases which basically confirms WHY we need immunisation. The story involves a 4-week old kidlet who picked up whooping cough because while mum had been vaccinated as a child, the area that she grew up in was very anti-vaccine and had low rates of vaccination. The kid ended up dying in the hospital.

The parents were upset (there was some reason why mum didn't have her whooping cough vaccine before/during pregnancy, but she had been immunised as a kid as had the family, so yes, they were fully pro vaccine) understandably and began a campaign to help increase the vaccination rate, using the photos of their baby as a reason why everyone should vaccinate (to protect those who can't be vaccinated, not those who don't vaccinate). The Australian vaccination network (formerly the anti vaccine network) wasn't too happy however. The owner of the network (who doesn't have a science or medical degree to her name) actually wanted the kid to have an autopsy or a full inquiry because she wasn't sure that the kid actually died from whooping cough!

[Panacea]

The parents were upset (there was some reason why mum didn't have her whooping cough vaccine before/during pregnancy, but she had been immunised as a kid as had the family, so yes, they were fully pro vaccine)

We generally don't vaccinate pregnant women. It's considered safer to wait until after the delivery, even though the TDaP is not a live vaccine. Before a few years ago, it wasn't even considered necessary for adults to get booster shots. The recent outbreaks of whooping cough have shown that boosters are necessary in the general adult population, especially new mothers.

In the past, the main vaccination issue was rubella. However, rubella is a live vaccine and absolutely cannot be given to pregnant women.

understandably and began a campaign to help increase the vaccination rate, using the photos of their baby as a reason why everyone should vaccinate (to protect those who can't be vaccinated, not those who don't vaccinate).

And this point really hits the nail on the head.

The Australian vaccination network (formerly the anti vaccine network) wasn't too happy however. The owner of the network (who doesn't have a science or medical degree to her name) actually wanted the kid to have an autopsy or a full inquiry because she wasn't sure that the kid actually died from whooping cough!

Ugh. Dumbass bitch. Whooping cough is easy to diagnose by symptom. This kind of crazy is just desperate for any reason to continue the denial.

[Greenday]

began a campaign to help increase the vaccination rate, using the photos of their baby as a reason why everyone should vaccinate (to protect those who can't be vaccinated, not those who don't vaccinate).

I have to wonder if it has the same effect on anti-vaccination people as it does when I get shown pictures of dead babies from anti-abortion people.

[fireheart17]

I have to wonder if it has the same effect on anti-vaccination people as it does when I get shown pictures of dead babies from anti-abortion people.

Probably not. The baby in the photo was alive, not dead. She actually looked oike she was being active. I think it was meant to be the "aw" factor.

Still, demanding a coronal inquiry (actually, by the time she did request it, the baby had been buried or cremated, not sure which) because you're that fucking nuts is inexcusable.

[Primer]

I remember having to get all kinds of vaccinations as a kid, including one round while I was still in diapers. When I started college in '78, I had to prove that I'd had them all. No way was I going to be able to trace records through Washington State, Wisconsin, Ohio, and most of Texas, so I went to my current doctor and paid out of pocket to get EVERYTHING done again. About a year ago, the college where I teach has started requiring meningitis vaccinations for all new students, and anybody that has been out of school for longer than one long semester.

Yes, it's a pain (literally) but it's sure a lot better than coming down with one of the diseases. Which reminds me--the next time I see my doc (I go at least twice a year for other reasons) I really need to ask about getting boosters on everything!

[fireheart17]

Well, here's the story I was mentioning:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/n...-1226650600820

[Panacea]

These people are just insane. Just fucking insane.

[SongsOfDragons]

These people are just insane. Just fucking insane.

I wonder what will happen to their poor kids when they grow up, try to enter university or plan to travel to countries which recommend things like tetanus etc, only to be asked for their jab certs or to book an appointment?

Would they defy their parents and get them done or would they just not do what they hoped to do with their lives?

I wouldn't wish the serious diseases on the kids, poor buggers just have morons for parents. Them, however, even those diseases are too good for them... *grumbles*