Honor Student Expelled and Charged

[Andara Bledin]

It as seen as a country in the way you think of country by people outside of the US. Those of us inside the US don't think of the US the same way. That's why trying to bring outside thinking into the equation doesn't fit the situation.

When things are flush or we have an enemy, we act like one big extended family. When things are going wrong, or we've got rivalries over sports, or we have issues with interstate trade, then we turn into a bunch of individualistic blowhards. The states may be one large family, but it's notably dysfunctional, and I'm not sure that the Constitution and human nature would allow for anything different.

That said, as it matters to the discussion at hand, what other states do is not only irrelevant, but also largely in line with how Florida handles it. There are only 8 (or fewer) states where they wouldn't have run afoul of age of consent laws and half of the nation is stricter. Which is what makes the mantra argument of "because Florida" not only irritating but also wrong.

[Gravekeeper]

It's illegal by virtue of being in about three quarters of the states of the union, actually. You keep harping on Florida, and that drum is beat to hell.

If by "harping on" you mean "Mentioned twice in this entire thread', sure. Also, the reason I said Florida and not the US in general is because I'm not aware of the AOC laws of all 50 states. So I was leaving my statements open in case I said US and ended up being wrong. I even said as such before.

But don't let me interrupt your ranting.

[Andara Bledin]

Also, the reason I said Florida and not the US in general is because I'm not aware of the AOC laws of all 50 states.

Ah. I see. I apologize for responding to what you said and not divining what it was you actually meant.

[Greenday]

Why should this female honor student get a pass that the male muslim shouldn't get?

Question (And anyone feel free to chime in on this): What does this girl being a honor student have to do with anything? It's like her having good grades is somehow relevant to the discussion. The same thing happened with the girl who set off explosives in her school's hallway. Does the person involved being a honor student somehow mean they should be treated differently from a C student or a D student?

[Andara Bledin]

Question (And anyone feel free to chime in on this): What does this girl being a honor student have to do with anything? It's like her having good grades is somehow relevant to the discussion.

It's an appeal to emotion. Just like the fact that it's a homosexual relationship.

The assumption being put forward is that an honor student is less likely to be dangerous/manipulative/bad than a student who isn't an honor student. That, however, begs the question of how often honor students aren't punished for the things they do because they're honor students, while other students who aren't as academically advanced get punished for every infraction based on the assumption that they're not honor students because they're fuck ups, instead.

Short form: It attracts eyeballs because it alleges injustice.

[Gravekeeper]

Ah. I see. I apologize for responding to what you said and not divining what it was you actually meant.

Except what I said was:

As is, their relationship is only illegal because they live in Florida. If they lived in Canada for example, it would be legal. I imagine its likewise legal in some other states.

And what you said was:

Plus, there are only three states in which a 14 year old can give consent. The majority tend to be 16 or older. While Florida has a hard age of 18, in this particular situation, the age of consent is actually 16.

and now you're going off at me for saying Florida a second time?

Never mind the fact this is all a completely irrelevant distraction to what the actual debate is. You never addressed my position or my counter point so far in this thread. You change the subject or you ignore it and bring up something else.

In fact I don't even understand why you're after me here as our positions here are not actually incompatible and as I pointed out there is a cultural difference at the root of any initial disagreement. This is legal in my country, it is illegal in yours. I disagree with your laws because they are pointless and seem to needlessly cause grief. You try to compare them to drug and alcohol laws. I disagree and explain the difference. You ignore that and start in on me for saying Florida twice.

So should I assume you're just being contrary again? Please let me know now so I can stop wasting my time.

[Ginger Tea]

I may be wrong in my knowledge of this, I would have to look it up to see where I am wrong, but that's not happening right this minute.

I've always seen Honor Student to be a title bestowed upon a student, but not one that is actually academic, you might have a few dozen straight A students a year but far less honor ones, I may be ill informed over this, but as I didn't study in America and the school system over there is mildly irrelevant unless trying to get to grips with what means what only in cases like this.

So as with the sexuality and gender of the people, it is seen as misdirection, an honor student would never <insert blank here>, yet Susie being a straight A student might be seen as less than Maisy also a straight A student but also an honor one at that.

Same as there are protected cliques within school hierarchy a science nerd might get a harsher ruling for the exact thing a jock did.

Edit:
had a quick wiki, page was scant, but it read that as long as you had good grades you made the list, so my hypothetical straight A Susie would also be a honor student, perhaps if there was a massive spike in grades you could have dozens or more in a year, where as I just had it pegged as best of the best whittled down perhaps via favouritism.

[Gravekeeper]

I'm not 100% sure on the concept of Honors student, as we don't really have the same thing in Canada. However, it makes for a much snappier headline for the media so they're going to go with it for outrage factor.

The ACLU has become involved now and is condemning the charges. Anonymous has now declared their official support as well. This is turning into a pretty big cluster fuck.

The prosecution wants her to agree to a plea deal and accept a charge of child abuse in exchange for not going on the sex offender registry. They want her confined to her home for 2 years and only permitted to leave for work, school or medical emergencies.

The defense wants it reduced to misdemeanor battery so she can be put on probation and not have her life ruined.

[Andara Bledin]

Two years of house arrest followed by one of probation is not a "ruined life." As long as she didn't do anything else stupid, it would be a life postponed.

They can take the fight all the way up to the Supreme Court, but in the meantime, it's highly likely that she'll be convicted of something far worse than child abuse, be put on the sex offender registry, and have to dedicate probably a decade or more of her life to the cause with the likelihood that she still won't prevail.

They might try to use the closeness of age as a defense, but based on their own statements, the matter of guilt is settled and it's merely a matter of fighting over what the charges and punishment end up being.

[Kheldarson]

I've always seen Honor Student to be a title bestowed upon a student, but not one that is actually academic, you might have a few dozen straight A students a year but far less honor ones, I may be ill informed over this, but as I didn't study in America and the school system over there is mildly irrelevant unless trying to get to grips with what means what only in cases like this.

You have A-honor roll and A-B honor roll. These are your honor students. They're usually also the students who are massively involved in school life and get into very little trouble outside of school (there are exceptions, of course.)

So when a paper says "Honor Student", it's basically like saying "the All-American Student".

[AmbrosiaWriter]

What about the Romeo and Juliet laws? I thought Florida had those?

I believe that they work in that if the "Victim" is 14-17 and have agreed to consensual sex, the "abuser" (>_>) just has to be no more than four years (which Hunt is not, only THREE) in order to fall under the Romeo and Juliet law.

The Florida Romeo & Juliet Law passed in 2007 is designed to protect individuals from the sex offender list. The victim in the case must be between 14 and 17, a willing participant in the sexual activity and no more than four years younger than the offender. The offense must be the only sex crime on the offender's record.This law does not make it legal to have sexual relations with minors, but merely stops the accused from being held out as a sex offender in society.

While she would still be punished, she shouldn't put on the sex offender's list due to this law. {Honestly love how the dummy who offered the plea deal is flat out breaking the law by putting that she must register as a sex offender in said plea deal.}

http://definitions.uslegal.com/r/romeo-and-juliet-law/

I find it strange this hasn't been brought up in this thread. Or did I just miss it?

[Greenday]

I've always seen Honor Student to be a title bestowed upon a student, but not one that is actually academic, you might have a few dozen straight A students a year but far less honor ones, I may be ill informed over this, but as I didn't study in America and the school system over there is mildly irrelevant unless trying to get to grips with what means what only in cases like this.

In my high school, a B average put you on honor roll and an A- average put you on high honor roll. You could get anything below a C to be on either. It wasn't much of a challenge, despite getting a seemingly better education than a lot of other people I went to college with (Scary thought). Despite slacking off, I still got straight A's throughout high school in my honors and AP classes. I graduated with a 3.79 and was 68th in my class because A's were given out like candy to the kids who didn't take honors classes since no one wanted to deal with them two years in a row.

Anywho, this girl was dumb and didn't use her brain. It's hard to gauge since you can't tell intent from just some articles. Was she taking advantage of the younger girl or did the relationship really mean something? There's no way to know given what we've heard.

[Andara Bledin]

What about the Romeo and Juliet laws? I thought Florida had those?

[snippage]

While she would still be punished, she shouldn't put on the sex offender's list due to this law. {Honestly love how the dummy who offered the plea deal is flat out breaking the law by putting that she must register as a sex offender in said plea deal.}

The plea doesn't include being put on the register. If she doesn't take the plea, she could be put on the register, depending on whether or not they decide that the older girl was in a position of authority over the younger. It's unlikely, but possible, in which case the age of consent becomes 18, no matter what.

The plea is for 2 years house arrest and 1 year probation. If she doesn't take it and goes to court, there's a very real likelihood that she will go to jail and she will have the charge on her record. I don't know when she turned 18, but if the sexual activity continued past her birthday, then it wouldn't be sealed normally, but I believe that is also part of the plea.

[Canarr]

Question (And anyone feel free to chime in on this): What does this girl being a honor student have to do with anything? It's like her having good grades is somehow relevant to the discussion. The same thing happened with the girl who set off explosives in her school's hallway. Does the person involved being a honor student somehow mean they should be treated differently from a C student or a D student?

I don't think it should have anything to do with this; I just took the honor-student thing from the thread title. As I said, I do believe in punishment for those who break the law, but do not feel that this is worth ruining a kid's life over.

If I understand that house arrest correctly, she'd be allowed to attend school or college and work, right? So, she wouldn't be a registered sex offender for the rest of her life, and could even continue her education? That doesn't seem too bad to me.

[fireheart17]

Question (And anyone feel free to chime in on this): What does this girl being a honor student have to do with anything? It's like her having good grades is somehow relevant to the discussion. The same thing happened with the girl who set off explosives in her school's hallway. Does the person involved being a honor student somehow mean they should be treated differently from a C student or a D student?

If you swapped the gender around, people would be clamoring for it and the guy would more than likely get off scot-free. Anything that gives someone prestige (honor student, jock, school captain etc.) somehow tends to give them the "invincible' shield, much the same way that child molesters (note: NOT just pedophiles, you can molest children and still not be a pedophile) and pedophiles tend to use their "good citizen" status to try and get off lightly.