Male Genital Mutilation

[Flyndaran]

Whatever AH's motives may be, you can't argue with her statement. Men have ruled and most likely will forever rule over women. It's sexist, but true.

It's a basic fact that men are, on average, more aggressive, and willing to follow orders unquestioningly.
I must admit that the most aggressive person I ever met was a woman, so pay close attention to the "on average" part.

[Amethyst Hunter]

Reading enough of your posts, AH, I'm starting to believe that you hate men on general principle, and as a result, for this debate, your opinion might well be somewhat skewed towards the idea "Well, so many men want to take away my right to control my body that by supporting the idea of forced circumcision I can take away some of their own control."

I might be wrong. But that is the attitude that I'm starting to see from you.

I'm not even gonna bother refuting this crap. You're going to believe what you want to believe regardless of what I say.

So far, I've been told that it's acceptable risk. Oh, and that the emotional trauma of people like myself is apparently so insignificant that it does not matter.

Point out to me where exactly *I* said anything like that.

And this is where I say 'adieu' (or however it's spelled) to this thread.

[Pedersen]

I'm not even gonna bother refuting this crap. You're going to believe what you want to believe regardless of what I say.

Yep, that's me, the single most inflexible person on the planet. Haven't had anybody give me anything to think about even, much less change my mind. Would be completely impossible to make me think anything else.

Point out to me where exactly *I* said anything like that.

I'll be more than happy to, provided you do something similar for me: Point out to me where exactly *I* said that you said anything like that. I said (to quote myself): "So far, I've been told that it's acceptable risk. Oh, and that the emotional trauma of people like myself is apparently so insignificant that it does not matter." When I said that, I was speaking over the course of this entire thread.

14 pages right now. And lots of places in this thread where those things have been either explicitly stated or very strongly implied.

I didn't say that *you* specifically said it. I said that it had been said.

And this is where I say 'adieu' (or however it's spelled) to this thread.

That, of course, is your choice.

[fireheart17]

OK....here's my viewpoints on this (not gonna quote anyone else lest I get flamed via PM)

Circumcision for Men: IMHO, it really should be left up to the male in question whether to get it or not. But only AFTER all the information has been explained to them by an unbiased source i.e. a doctor. I have heard that it makes it easier to wash the penis...anyone here care to follow on that?
Circumcision for women: Given that the only place I've really heard this going on is in some African communities and it's often due to religious or cultural beliefs, I'm mostly against it. The type that involves ONLY removing the clitoral hood...I'll say that as a maybe. Any other forms...noo way. Mostly because at that point, the girls may be aware that it's not the only way for them and/or may not consent to the procedure.

Basically, they should be made aware before it happens.

[Seshat]

I am not against voluntary circumcision. If you choose it, then more power to you. If there is a medical reason (which does happen, but is a very small fraction of the total number of cases), I accept it, and quietly.

What I am actually against: Parents forcing it on their sons without a strong medical reason. That constitutes a very large majority of the cases of circumcision, and those are what I oppose.

This sums up my feelings on the matter as well. And ditto for female circumcision, or any other form of body modification.

Informed adults who are competent to make their own choices: go for it.
(And they should be paying for it themselves, too.)

People who are incompetent to make their own choices, or whose psyches are (or are likely to be) insufficiently developed to fully comprehend the issues: only for medical reasons, and with an informed competent guardian/carer agreeing on their behalf.
(Paid for by whatever means the society uses to pay for medical stuff.)

Insufficiently informed people: provide them with the information.

[Gerrinson]

I have heard that it makes it easier to wash the penis...anyone here care to follow on that?

I think I posted about this earlier in the thread, but it's been a while and I'm too lazy too look.

That being said, I'm an uncircumsized man. It's not at all difficult to clean myself. Circumcision might save me 2 - 3 seconds a day. Maybe 5 seconds, tops. Not really worth the effort of cutting off bits, in my opinion.

[Seshat]

And my mother discussed it with me as part of the whole 'where do babies come from'/child-rearing prep thing.

Apparently it makes no significant different in raising a baby boy either. Cleanliness is easy.

[Flyndaran]

I've changed my opinion since this thread started.
I don't see circumcision as mutilation or major in any way... BUT if it ain't broke don't fix it seems like unasailable logic.

Mostly OT: This is why I've decided not to castrate my most recent cat. He has no desire for and is still afraid of all cats including those in heat. The only thing he has shown sexual interest in is my left arm. Yeah; ewwwww is right.
But until and unless he shows even the slightest interest in gettin' it on with females I won't allow anyone to cut anything off of him.

[AFPheonix]

Are there unfixed female cats at your residence? If so, I would neuter him, as he will get over his fear and you will have kittens.
Further, he will start marking if you keep him intact. His urine will also have a much stronger odor than if he was neutered.
Also, he will be at much higher risk for testicular or prostate cancers if you leave him intact.
It's cheap, it's not too hard on the cat, do it for his well being and peace of mind.

[Flyndaran]

Are there unfixed female cats at your residence? If so, I would neuter him, as he will get over his fear and you will have kittens.
Further, he will start marking if you keep him intact. His urine will also have a much stronger odor than if he was neutered.
Also, he will be at much higher risk for testicular or prostate cancers if you leave him intact.
It's cheap, it's not too hard on the cat, do it for his well being and peace of mind.

It's freakin' castration! How anyone is able to call it a minor surgery is beyond me. My Cerbee nearly died during that routine operation.
I've had intact males and not one ever marked the area. All the markers have been females post hyster-ufo-ectomies in what I call the "Urine wars of '98.
I try to refrain from rude comments but DUH! removal of the testicles decreases the risk of testicular cancer.
Smackers is not just afraid of cats he actively dislikes females in heat and has decided that my arm is his girlfriend. He might be gay. I know that it's not to uncommon in dogs, but I've never heard of a gay cat.

[AFPheonix]

Why yes, it IS freakin' castration. That's the point. It's also part of being a good pet owner if you don't intend to breed.
Our only colt from this year will be getting his pockets picked as soon as his 2nd testicle hurries up and descends. Every colt gets gelded. All dogs and cats get spayed and neutered.
Pretty much the only animals that get to stay intact around here are the mares and the chickens.

[Flyndaran]

Normally I would have vets castrate my cats... BUT I don't take surgery lightly. If Smackers starts showing any interest in females in heat, then I will reevaluate my position and likely take him to the vet de-baller.
I just still feel reticent, because of how close to dying a previous cat came when he went under the knife.

[Slytovhand]

Pretty much the only animals that get to stay intact around here are the mares and the chickens.

Humans are animals too...

[smileyeagle1021]

but I've never heard of a gay cat.

i'm pretty sure my cat is gay...

and I have to agree with the people saying that spaying/neutering is the responsible thing to do... just because a cat has never done something before doesn't mean they won't in the future... cat's are like humans... very unpredictable.

[Flyndaran]

I know I should... But ever since I had rectal surgery without any post-op pain meds I became incapable of taking my cat to the vet for snippage. I know it's a mostly illogical mental block.
I just need one more reason to have him castrated.