Feminist myths are making equality laws unfair to men

[AFPheonix]

Could it have been Linda Babcock?

It's entirely possible, although I didn't find her on WHYY's website. there was a blurb on Day to Day that sounded pretty familiar, though.

[Sylvia727]

"you should get a girlfriend, so you have someone to cook and clean for you"

BWAHAHAHA!!! If any guy ever had the guts or the stupidity to say that to me, I'd laugh in his face, and then dump his sorry butt faster than a red hot fry pan. It's not like there's a secret girls-only club that teaches us how to cook and clean and pop out babies. Any fool can vacuum, although I have learned to my astonishment that some people don't know how to vacuum well. Cooking is harder, but estrogen doesn't make it less hard.

[Saydrah]

Raps, I think gender roles originally evolved because the sex differences physically prevented early humans from having non-traditional gender roles. For example, no breast pumps. In a hunter/gatherer society, a woman couldn't really go off chucking spears at mammoths with a baby latched onto each teat. Also, there's the theory that humans lost their hair originally because they were semi-aquatic at the stage that's more commonly believed to have been the hunter/gatherer stage, and going out in the water to fish with a baby attached would have been difficult. Then there's pregnancy and the lack of birth control, etc.

Of course, early societies were matriarchal because (according to most theories) humans were originally unaware that men played a part in the production of babies. Thus, women were held in high esteem and believed to have the ability to choose to give birth and continue the tribe. However, again due to a lack of technology to overcome sex differences, even in these societies women did not take the active role of hunting. In addition, men were expendable in early societies because one man could impregnate many women, while women were kept out of danger since more women were necessary to continue the tribe's lineage. Now, monogamy is the norm and men who father children with many mothers are frowned upon, so men are no longer automatically supposed to take on more dangerous roles and can instead stay home with children if they like.

Now we have the ability for women to choose birth control or sterilization to prevent pregnancy from interfering with work, to pump milk in order to be able to leave a baby, to purchase childcare services, to return to work shortly after having a baby, etc., but gender roles are so ingrained in society that many women don't aspire to traditionally male jobs and household roles.

[AdminAssistant]

Mainly, because of what my father said to me once. That is "you should get a girlfriend, so you have someone to cook and clean for you" My reaction? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not going to date someone so they'll clean my house. That's just wrong. It's not like I make a mess to begin with

Sadly I have a friend who feels this way. ("Why should I have to learn to iron/cook/clean? When I get married my wife will do it.") Surprisingly enough, he is still single.

I really hate the idea that because I am female, there is pressure for me to get married and have children, and then either 1) be forced to give up my career to be a housewife or 2) be told I am the worst mother in the world for working. It's why the idea of having children is very unappealing to me right now.

[Boozy]

My reaction? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not going to date someone so they'll clean my house. That's just wrong.

Your mom did right in raising you.

This subject is a tough one for people to think rationally about, because we're all so personally affected by it. Many, if not most of us, were probably raised in so-called "traditional" homes where our mothers, even if they worked outside the house, did the bulk of the work at home too. And if we had a happy childhood, it can be natural to attribute that to said traditional division of labour. So we have to challenge the way we think about these things.

Personally, I was raised by a stay-at-home mom and a father who worked so much that I have no memories of him before the age of 10. My husband was raised in a similar environment. Is that why he is so career-oriented and I'm not? Is that why whenever we discuss the particulars of having children, both of us immediately assume that I'll quit my job? And is this a choice we're actually making, or are we just blindly following gender expectations?

How many men actually feel completely free to ask themselves, "Do I want to stay at home with my children?" How many mothers feel guilty if they take a job outside the home and leave the kids with a sitter? How many still feel guilty if they leave their children with their own father? How many women do you hear referring to their husband's time with his children as "babysitting"?

Questions to think about. I have no answers. But I do think it's pointless to focus so much on women's equality in the workplace when there is not yet total equality in the home - for either sex.

[MystyGlyttyr]

I don't know about other women, but I've been at the newspaper and haven't advanced in three years because I don't WANT to.

It might sound odd, but I'm happy in the job I've got right now, and I can see that moving to another position would take away things I like and add things I hate. I'm happy with my salary (well, mostly) and hours, and happy with the responsibilities I have, so I don't want to move anywhere else (at least not in this company).

Now, my guy friends, on the other hand, have this habit of getting in a job they hate simply because it's up the ladder. They were perfectly happy in their job as a forklift operator or stocker or what-have-you, but leapt at a chance to move up even though they knew straight away it would be an added stress level or so.

So...not going by any studies here...do women have a habit of finding a position they like and clinging to it while men prefer to just climb for the hell of climbing? (Of me and my friends, only two are family men that might want raises for that reason, the rest of us are singles taking care of ourselves, so that's not the reason as far as I can tell.)

I wonder if anyone ever has actually gotten down and studied this?

[protege]

This subject is a tough one for people to think rationally about, because we're all so personally affected by it. Many, if not most of us, were probably raised in so-called "traditional" homes where our mothers, even if they worked outside the house, did the bulk of the work at home too. And if we had a happy childhood, it can be natural to attribute that to said traditional division of labour. So we have to challenge the way we think about these things.

That's the point I was trying to make. I don't think my dad was trying to be an asshole when he said what he did. Simply, I think that's how he was raised. I mean, in the 1940s, up until the 1960s, it was common for the mother to stay at home, while the father went to work. His parents did it (well, until he reached school age, anyway), his grandparents did it, etc. Same with my mother's side--the men went to work in the fields, and the women stayed home to take care of the house.

I do know one thing, my grandmother on Mom's side...is still resentful for being stuck at home all the time. Sure, she was a damn great cook, and took care of everyone. However, she had a chance to go to college...and wasn't allowed because of her father. The bastard actually *forbid* her, meaning she never got to realize her potential. However, I can understand *why* that happened--in the 1930s, it simply didn't happen.

[ArcticChicken]

I don't like laws that grant consideration to someone because of some factor they have no control over, because a law that gets me a better job or better pay because I'm a woman is still sexist. Sure, it works out to my advantage, but I'd rather get it because I'm the most qualified person for the job, and if I'm not, I'd honestly rather see someone else have it.

On the other hand, there are people out there who won't give me my due consideration because of the mere fact of my gender, and that's not cool either. I don't have a solution to the problem, I'm not sure this is one, except to teach my kids to be less prejudiced than I am, like my parents taught me.

[Pedersen]

Just read a joke that made me think of this thread for some reason.

http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/90q1/arrest.11.html