sterilization (of the wanted kind)

[Cat]

I know I never want kids, I am 30 now, so I have known thins for quote sometime ( I even took in to consideration that I may change my mind...unlikely....but if I know I will adopt) I've known since I was 18 I didn't want kids.

Anyway, I know most docs will not perform this on a woman who has not reproduced, due to law suits *if* the woman changed her mind.


Does anyone know of someone who had had this done and regretted it? I know I will not, I just dislike that it is not easy to get...just a peeve of mine. Just some thoughts for a mid-week night.....Any thoughts/opinions on the subject?

[DrT]

Well, in a Devil's advocate kinda point of view, I wouldn't perform this on someone who hasn't reproduced, for many reasons:
1- there are many contraceptives
2- especially on women, long term complications can be severe
3- a change of mind later can be devastating, even if you are convinced it won't be. This is a lifelong decision, involving a possible lifelong regret/scar.


Considering 3, and taking into account 1, sterilization is not really the way to go.

That is, in my opinion.

[Lace Neil Singer]

1. Contraception isn't 100%. I'm on the pill and my boyf always wears a condom, but there's always that risk. I know for a fact that if I did end up falling pregnant, I'd have an abortion that my boyf would willingly pay for. If a doctor allowed me to be sterilised, there wouldn't be that abortion, now would there?

2. Same applies to childbirth, but no-one ever tells pregnant women that they shouldn't give birth naturally, unless they have an existing medical condition that prohibits natural birth.#

3. That's a patronising attitude, assuming that women are helpless, hysterical creatures who don't know their own minds. I have never wanted kids, not ever; I didn't even play with dolls as a child. I didn't want kids at age 16 and I don't want them now, at nearly 30. Yet I still can't get sterelised.

Well, that's my take, anyway. I also know that I wouldn't make a good mother, and I have in the past suffered from depression. I'm also far too selfish to want to share my life with anyone save my boyf; I want to stay out all night, decide to go out on the spur of the moment, and spend my spare cash on myself. I have always felt that way, and believe it or not, not every woman has a motherly instinct or feels broody so it's pretty stupid to act as tho they do. If they did, there wouldn't be so many abused, neglected or murdered children.

[Norton]

My sister is in her mid 30's, childless, and has had a tubal ligation. She is a smoker, so she was getting to a point where BC was dangerous for her (increased risk of blood clots and heart problems in smoking women over 35).

My sister, while I love her dearly, is not fit to raise children and I think she realizes it. Even still, she had a hell of a time getting a doctor to agree to the sterilization because she had no children. Thankfully, my sister is very strong-willed and didn't give up until it was done. She says every once in a while she feels some regret about having the procedure done, but that she realizes it was for the best.

I am very proud of her for the decision she made. Perhaps she had selfish intentions, not wanting to give up her time or money to a child, but I feel it would have been even more selfish of her to have a baby just because she could. Again, I love my sister, but she should not be raising a child.

As for myself, I also Do. Not. Want. Children.

Within the next decade, I think I will be able to convince my fiance to get a vasectomy. He balked when I first mentioned it, but seemed more open to the idea later. I'm only 24, so I have at least a few years before I should stop taking BC. However, if my fiance (later husband) decides in the future not to be sterilized, I will follow in my sister's footsteps and attempt to get a tubal ligation.

I have never wanted kids, not ever; I didn't even play with dolls as a child.
*snip*
I'm also far too selfish to want to share my life with anyone save my boyf; I want to stay out all night, decide to go out on the spur of the moment, and spend my spare cash on myself. I have always felt that way, and believe it or not, not every woman has a motherly instinct or feels broody so it's pretty stupid to act as tho they do. If they did, there wouldn't be so many abused, neglected or murdered children.

I feel the same way, Lace.

[BlaqueKatt]

1- there are many contraceptives

My son was conceived while I was on the pill and my husband used a condom that didn't break-one of the "sheepskin" ones as I have a latex allergy-after 8 years on hormonal birth control the doctors finally realized the pill was causing both my depression, and my almost psychotic mood swings during PMS. I'm also allergic to spermicides-so other than having my tubes tied, there was nothing I could do-plus BC in any form is not 100%.

2- especially on women, long term complications can be severe

Never had any complications-information and consent forms had nothing listed under "long-term complications", can't find anything on the web either. Though I did find information that a large percentage of women have worse bleeding or cramps post-surgery, and blame "post-tubal ligation syndrome"-when in actuality studies were done and showed that 99% of women complaining of this "syndrome" had previously been on the pill due to-hold on to your hats-painful cramps and heavy bleeding. hmm sounds to me like "you took pills for a problem, and the added side effect of preventing pregnancy, then decided to have surgery and stop taking the pills, and now surprise the problem is back-I'll blame the surgery."

3- a change of mind later can be devastating, even if you are convinced it won't be. This is a lifelong decision, involving a possible lifelong regret/scar.

With the number of unwanted children in foster homes, and around the world in orphanages, why is the desire to have "my own children" so strong, personally if I want more kids I'll adopt-and I'll adopt an older child, why-because the frequent feedings, lack of sleep, and diaper changes suck.

As far as the "lifelong scar" Tubal ligation is done with Laparoscopy-I have one scar inside my belly button, and one that is about a quarter of an inch long-that's it-how horrible. They now have "tubal implants" that require no surgery and are placed while the woman is still in her Gynecologists office-zero scarring.

believe it or not, not every woman has a motherly instinct or feels broody so it's pretty stupid to act as tho they do. If they did, there wouldn't be so many abused, neglected or murdered children.

I see far too many women treating their kids as "fashion accessories"*, I think these women have kids simply because "everyone else I know has kids"-if women(and men) weren't made to feel like "evil child-hating monsters" if they don't want kids-maybe society would get a little better as kids would be being raised by people that want and care about them, rather than those who feel obligated to have them for whatever reason. Just because you CAN reproduce doesn't mean you have to or should.


*One woman I know had her child's day so scheduled that she only was with her for 30 minutes a day-does that sound like someone who wanted to have and enjoy raising her kids? If her child was sick she didn't know what to do, and resented having to stay home rather than be out with her friends gossiping, and bitching about how expensive their children's activities were.

[anriana]

Well, in a Devil's advocate kinda point of view, I wouldn't perform this on someone who hasn't reproduced, for many reasons:
1- there are many contraceptives
2- especially on women, long term complications can be severe
3- a change of mind later can be devastating, even if you are convinced it won't be. This is a lifelong decision, involving a possible lifelong regret/scar.


Considering 3, and taking into account 1, sterilization is not really the way to go.

That is, in my opinion.

That's a really patronizing attitude. Should tattoo artists stop tattooing people because it is a lifelong decision involving body changes? Should plastic surgeons stop giving nosejobs and implants? Should tongue splits or cosmetic vaginoplasty no longer be performed? Or should men and women be treated as adults capable of making their own long-term decisions and weighing the factors thereof without an oh-so-much-more-intelligent-and-knowledgeable-of-their-situation stranger refusing them?

[smileyeagle1021]

Should tongue splits or cosmetic vaginoplasty no longer be performed?

yes but not for any reason related to this thread

I do agree with you though, it is patronizing to say "you might change your mind later so I won't do the procedure" Assuming the person is a reasonable and intelligent adult they are capable of making a decision and if they later change their mind that's their own damned problem.

[DrT]

Some of you should review the definition of patronizing, but heh.

Anyways, I was stating my opinion and wasn't preaching gospel.
I was putting my feet in the shoes of the doctor doing the procedure, and facing the consequences of it.
Believe it or not: people do change. If you are convinced of the opposite, best of luck to you in your endeavors. I always put into my reasoning a little uncertainty, because life taught me it's the best way to look at it.

Personally I think one should do with their bodies exactly what they want. But this is not the issue here.

The issue is to garantee that the doctor, who is simply doing his job, won't be facing a lawsuit later on. In america this threat is very real, and I wouldn't like to be facing it. Hence me playing devil's advocate and explaining the doc's point of view (or to be accurate, my definition of it).
What garantees does the doctor have? Your word?

[BlaqueKatt]

What garantees does the doctor have? Your word?

Actually the consent form states "this is a permanent procedure and cannot be reversed if you change your mind later on" It goes on to staate that you are making the decision of your own free will, it is not being forced upon you, and should you change your mind you will not hold the doctor responsible for following your wishes-so they have a legally binding document.

[Pedersen]

They have a legally binding document... That will be a huge relief to them when the lawsuit gets filed and they pay their lawyer much money to enforce that legally binding document.

And then, if they happen to have a bad lawyer, lose that lawsuit, get their malpractice insurance to pay out that claim, and then watch their malpractice insurance go even higher. Heck, from this article, ob/gyn malpractice insurance is $160,000/yr in the Philadelphia area.

Ah well, fortunately, bad lawyers don't exist, and judges enforce all aspects of all contracts all the time, right? Yep, good thing.

Mind you, I happen to agree that men and women both should be able to obtain a sterilization procedure if they want it. I just also understand the fears that doctors have about doing it.

[AdminAssistant]

Ay, but here's the rub, are doctors equally relunctant to do vasectomies?

Count me among those women who are ambivalent towards children. Personally, I would rather adopt a child than give birth. I watched my Mom give up all of her freedom to raise us, and I see the pressure my sister is under to do the same thing. I've worked hard to develop my own life and existence - and I don't want to give that up for babies.

I am on birth control - but I shouldn't be. I have a very high risk for breast cancer (due to family history and fibrocystics aka frozen pea syndrome) and the best thing for me to do is leave my hormones alone. (Yes, the jury is still out on whether or not hormone therapy or birth control increase the risks of breast cancer).

If I should choose to get my tubes tied, then I should be able to have it done as easily as a man who wants a vasectomy.

[Pedersen]

Ay, but here's the rub, are doctors equally relunctant to do vasectomies?

No, they're not, and no, it's not fair.

I believe, though, that there are three reasons, and two of them are societal. I don't know how to fix them, either.
[LIST][*]The perception is that women want babies, and men don't. It's an easy assumption to make, too. Walk down the street pushing a stroller with a baby in it, and note the reactions. The women will be much more likely to try to stop and look at the baby, talk to the parent, etc. The men are much less likely to do the same. Therefore, it looks like women want babies, and men don't.[*]Western society, for some dumb reason, seems to feel that men should "play the field", and women should not. Therefore, men should be able to avoid worry about getting too many women pregnant. Stupid, but it does seem to be part of the perception of the genders.[*]The final reason, though, has nothing to do with mentality, and everything to do with practicality. At least for now, men have four options for birth control: abstinence, rely on the woman, condoms, and vasectomy. Abstinence is not a choice many couples will enjoy.

If the relationship is new, or is shaky, some women (not all, not even most, not by a longshot) will attempt to get pregnant to keep the man around. It's probably not even 10%. But it's often enough that people know of it happening. Furthermore, using this method takes the reproductive choices out of the hands of the guy. Relying on the partner for birth control is unfair all around.

Condoms are not things that most couples enjoy, either.

That leaves vasectomies. And everything I say here sounds condescending, so I stop here. Seriously, I tried for 10 minutes to say something here that didn't sound that way, and couldn't come up with it, probably because it was the right choice for me, and I don't regret it.[*]

There are any number of times that those assumptions are wrong, but those are the assumptions we currently have to live with. Correct those assumptions if you want to see change.

[DrT]

No doctor will hesitate at vasectomy no.
then again, no judge will listen to a man attacking his doctor for the procedure, while a woman will get all the attention, and the lil piece of paper where she signed her informed consent forgotten or dismissed.

life ain't fair, for anyone. An certainly not for doctors.

I mean: in america, doctor offering abortions GET SHOT DEAD.
yeah, there was an informed consent, and all. That don't protect you from bullets.

So I'm sorry you're having trouble getting the procedure done on you. But you can't blame doctors to be careful.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Just to let you know; I'm English, not American... and I still can't get my tubes tied. At this rate, I'll be going thru the menopause before I can talk anyone round into doing it. -_-

[smileyeagle1021]

on the topic of male vasectomy vs (i'm not sure the technical term for female steralization), I may be wrong, but isn't it easier to reverse a vasectomy than having a woman's tubes tied? If so might that be part of the reason vasectomies are so much easier to get?