Domestic violence victim fired from teaching job

[BlaqueKatt]

So, are you trying to offend everyone in the thread or did you just accidentally insult us all?.

just stating fact, the article ITSELF states this is going to cause more women to not report DV, because now they may have to fear for their job.

Her students are 6-7 years old. Its pretty unlikely they have someone in prison with a grudge against them.

Magical land where no one but the teachers get divorced? Those kids DO have adult parents, parents are the #1 cause of parental abuse.

Nothing but straw.

Really?

No It's a valid reason why she may not be able to "just pack up and leave", you ever been through a divorce with kids? I have, being homeless was almost not an acceptable reason for me to move back home, because I was almost charged with kidnapping my OWN child-he had visitation, I had nowhere to go(kicked out of military housing, no job, no car, and the court only made him give me $50/month.

[Gravekeeper]

just stating fact, the article ITSELF states this is going to cause more women to not report DV, because now they may have to fear for their job.

And yet again, absolutely nobody here said this was a great solution. Only that there doesn't seem to be any sort of good solution at all.

Magical land where no one but the teachers get divorced? Those kids DO have adult parents, parents are the #1 cause of parental abuse.

Magical land where statistics don't exist apparently. Child abuse unfortunately happens behind closed doors. What we have here is an abusive partner that obviously doesn't give a rats ass about doors and must exhibit stalker like behaviour.

An abusive parent is not going to show up at a school and start beating all the children just to get to his own child. A scorned abusive stalker on the other hand.

The article even indicates that he already showed up at the school and the school went into lock down as a result. So they're not working from some nebulous possibility.

Really?

Yes, really. That is a straw man argument. There is no indication in the article that this is the situation she is in AND the article states it's her ex-husband.

you ever been through a divorce with kids?

I was the kid in it. I've watched my drunken father fight 3 police officers in our living room when I was 5. Bolstering a strawman with an appeal to sympathy is not going to work here.

[Hyena Dandy]

BK, I don't think anyone here is praising the situation, just saying that it is the best of many bad options.

If you want to convince me it's shitty, you really don't need to try. I agree that it sucks. But so far, I'm yet to hear an option that will actually do better. All you're convincing me of is "This really sucks."

[Panacea]

Put her on paid administrative leave?

Find her another job in a different city? Pay for her relocation costs?

Would probably be cheaper than the inevitable lawsuit...

She's not a public school teacher, but a teacher in a Catholic school. Most Catholic schools are run at the parish, not Diocese, level. So a transfer is not an easy option, or even possible.

And the school really doesn't owe her another job or relocation costs when it's HER ex causing the problem. Severance and a good reference should have been the deal.

And yet again, absolutely nobody here said this was a great solution. Only that there doesn't seem to be any sort of good solution at all.

There isn't any good solution. Once the ex decided to be a dick and pull the kids in it, all bets were off. The school can't afford to take chances on an abusive nut of an ex: not after Newtown. There's no question the teacher is caught in the middle and got totally screwed, but I'm not so sure what really could be realistically done.

An abusive parent is not going to show up at a school and start beating all the children just to get to his own child. A scorned abusive stalker on the other hand.

I'm actually not so sure about that. Here in North Carolina a few years ago, an abusive ex walked into a nursing home and started shooting up the place while looking for the ex wife, who hid in a closet. She'd left him for DV after he held a gun to her head and threatened to kill her. He killed 7 residents of the nursing home, a nurse, and shot a cop.

Point is, it isn't always easy to see when these types cross the line from abusive to actually following through on threats. I don't think employers should have to take that chance when there are innocent parties at stake.

[HYHYBT]

If he behaves like this, and if the family has a restraining order against him, what are the odds that he has the shared custody or visitation rights that are the reason some divorced/divorcing people can't move far away?

[fireheart17]

She's a teacher, more than likely her degree is now 100% useless, she's now been deemed "unemployable" for being a victim of domestic violence. You think they'd expel a student if the situation were similar? Or would the student be given counseling and protection. Nice how the school can see the future and know he'll come back only if she's working there, if he isn't notified(which why would he be), he'll still come back, and they'll have no warning.

As far as "why doesn't she just pack up and leave", if there's currently a divorce pending she could end up in jail for leaving the jurisdiction. Courts don't see domestic violence against the spouse as a reason to deny visitation.

Just a nitpick here, but a teaching degree does not necessarily make things "useless". There are other avenues she could consider that don't necessarily involve classroom work and would also require her to not be at the same place all the time.

Examples:

-Education officer for a community-based program geared towards children. For instance, joining a drug/alcohol/sex education group that goes out to teach those programs at schools. In her case, she may not be at the same school every day minimising the risk of her ex finding out where she is and going after her.

-At-home/in-school tutoring. Self-employed or through an agency. In this scenario, she wouldn't be at the same location every day and if she's self-employed, she can't "fire" herself. Yes, there is the possibility of a parent getting wind of the situation and cancelling the tutoring, but generally the PARENTS are the ones who seek the tutoring, not the students.

-education officer for a program geared towards teachers. One example: there's a group down here called SPELD that runs programs geared towards teachers, tutors and the like for children with learning difficulties/disabilities. The programs are run by current/ex-teachers. If she's not at the same location every day, ex can't find her.

-Working in an administrative capacity for a school, parish or similar. While adult employees may still be at risk, the threat is no more different to say, an employee who inadvertedly pisses a customer off and said customer attempts to blow up the building (yes, this has happened before). The risk and threat is still there, but there are threats that are equal to it.

-Higher education: OK, this is classroom work, but it's with ADULTS, not children. Teaching teachers how to teach. Change of location and timing meaning that her ex may not necessarily be able to spot a pattern.

-Finally, creating her OWN program and going around to educate students, teachers and the like about domestic violence or similar. Quite a few ex-teachers have done this, where they go around to educate students about everything from mental illness to partying safe.



There are plenty of avenues for someone with an education degree that don't necessarily involve a classroom.

As for the student in the same situation, I do believe that in those cases, schools are required by law to report that to CPS or similar. Not exactly a great argument.

In the "pack up and leave" scenario, I would imagine that there would be cases that override what you would've suggested.

[draco664]

Paid leave for how long? Her ex is out in June and may come back next school year. Over and over and over...so how long do you keep a non-teacher on payroll?

I'm not suggesting it's the best way of handling it. It's not an ideal situation, but it's not the teacher's fault. Firing someone for something not their fault is generally a pretty good basis for a lawsuit. And lawsuits are generally more expensive than paying someone a wage for years.

(Also, on average at state run schools at least, the number of admin staff outnumber the teaching staff. Not teaching doesn't seem to be the barrier for employment at schools as you may imagine...)

And that's not to say she couldn't do anything. She could help make class plans. Help mark students' work. Write policies. Review teaching methods. Productive stuff that could be done off campus. I couldn't tell you the number of teachers I know who would be delighted to have someone else help with planning and marking.

[Kheldarson]

I'm not suggesting it's the best way of handling it. It's not an ideal situation, but it's not the teacher's fault. Firing someone for something not their fault is generally a pretty good basis for a lawsuit. And lawsuits are generally more expensive than paying someone a wage for years.

(Also, on average at state run schools at least, the number of admin staff outnumber the teaching staff. Not teaching doesn't seem to be the barrier for employment at schools as you may imagine...)

And that's not to say she couldn't do anything. She could help make class plans. Help mark students' work. Write policies. Review teaching methods. Productive stuff that could be done off campus. I couldn't tell you the number of teachers I know who would be delighted to have someone else help with planning and marking.

That wasn't the point. She was hired to be a teacher. She was put on administrative leave following the incident.

The school decided that having her on campus was too dangerous for the sake of the other students. So how long do you pay a teacher to not teach?

Sure, if they had an opening that would allow for her to be hired for off campus work, they should've offered it.

But, honestly, how many schools offer the services you're talking about to people who don't work on campus? Or even hire teaching assistants for regular ed classrooms?

So, the school has a teacher that they don't feel comfortable letting back on campus for fear of what her ex-husband might do in order to get to her (sucky, but understandable), have a teaching position that they need to have properly filled, and probably don't have any other openings (Catholic schools tend not to have a lot of turn-over). What does the school do? Fire her, re-hire her at a much lower salary (because admin positions do not pay as much as teachers, and teachers don't get paid much to begin with) for a position they just created for her, and then hope there's enough in the budget to hire a proper second grade teacher to fill her spot? Or just fire her and use her portion of the budget to hire a new teacher?

Yes, it sucks, but the school cannot be responsible for just one teacher. They have a whole school full of people they have to be responsible for.

I'd honestly say that the Diocese proclamation that she can't teach anywhere in the Diocese is harsher than the school's response. But the Diocese of San Diego only covers two counties in California, so she could go outside the Diocese to teach, if she wanted.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm not suggesting it's the best way of handling it. It's not an ideal situation, but it's not the teacher's fault.

It's not the school's fault, either, so why is it they're expected to pay to bail her out?

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

I have to ask just what, precisely, is a school supposed to do when one of its employees is involved in a situation that poses a threat to their students?

Actually, excactly what the school did. I said a solid, not a requirement. As in, if I were forced to fire someone for this reason AND it does not put me out to any great degree, yes, I'd probably help them hit the phone a bit and have recommendations ready. It doesn't make me great nor does it make the school horrible for not. I'm just saying a bare minimum above "no fucks given" isn't a slippery slope into problem dumping and making it the schools job. I certainly collected no paychecks at my last job for the recommendations I gave my employees.

Her main problem is her profession. I hate to say it, but if this guy is not going to go away she can't have a job involving kids. Most other industries would be far more lenient.

[gremcint]

Here's a question if a teacher on CS posted about an abusive husband coming to their work and the school fired her for it how would we react?

We would want to string up the people who fired her and beat them.

The school has just as much responsibility to it's employees as it does to the students.

If I'm a student and I have a psycho ex or parent should I be expelled, people are literally blaming the victim here.

[Kheldarson]

If a student had this issue at a public school, then there'd be more room for outcry as you don't have choice of public education.

As this happened at a private school, the school would still be in its right to ask you to take your money elsewhere for the sake of other students.

And any school has the right to let a teacher go for any reason . So the fact that they balanced her teaching job against the collective safety of the student body and their other employees sucks for her, but is still what they had to do and had the right to do.

[Gravekeeper]

If I'm a student and I have a psycho ex or parent should I be expelled, people are literally blaming the victim here.

Nobody is blaming her. No one. Not a single person. Its a terrible situation with no good solution and it forced the school into a her job vs school safety situation. Her job loses. The school DOES have more responsibility to its student's safety than it does her job.

There's no sense harping on the school unless you have a better solution.

[Hyena Dandy]

people are literally blaming the victim here.

Either we disagree on what it means to "Blame the victim" or the meaning of "Literally."

No-one's saying it's her fault, or that she should be punished. Only that this is the best bad option.

Edit: Also, if the fact that you have a psycho ex/parent/relative poses a danger to the other students, you should be away from the school, yes.

[Greenday]

It's a pretty crappy situation all-around. But in a way, by firing her to prevent some psycho from entering the school, they are admitting that they are unable to keep the kids safe from intruders.