Uh....*BSOD* (school-related)

[fireheart17]

So imagine that you are a 12-year-old girl who has been playing gridiron/american football for the last 5 or so years. You are an excellent player on the team and yes, while your body is changing, you still do wear all the padding and whatnot required.

Then all of a sudden you are told that you can't join the team this year. Is it because?

a) they don't want you to go up against an all-male team?
b) your body is changing and there could be potential health risks associated with it?
c) your male team-mates will apparently "lust" after you.

If you answered c), congratulations, you happen to be these idiots.

[Andara Bledin]

Don't forget the part where the CEO of the school (not the principal or the football coach) prayed for guidance over an issue that apparently only he was concerned about.

I'm thinking that the one with impure thoughts might have been him. >_<

[Hyena Dandy]

Was gonna make this earlier today.

I posted on the facebook page. Maddy is a great kid, and even in the fairly simple posts she made I can see she has a passion for football.

I've always resented my parents for not letting me try out (even in highschool, I was 'too small' to try. I'm 5'11. I also know I would have been good, because I played pickup with some guys from the team and even though I couldn't outrun them, I was damn near impossible to touch when I was approaching) so I can't imagine what it would be like to be able to play, then told you CAN'T. And for something OTHER people MIGHT have been doing... The thought of it made me so angry I hrewa pillow against the wall.

This just makes me so angry. For the last few years, one of the things that has brought my family together has been football. One of the things that brings a lot of people in this country together is football. At this point, it's as much a part of the American mythology as apple pie and... Well, I'd say baseball, but if you compare the cultural importance of the World Series vs the Superbowl, I think football has surpassed it.

If you can play, you can play. If you can take a hit, dish out a hit... That's about all you need.

This action is offensive to me as a Christian. The Bible doesn't say "If your right eye causes you to stumble, tell people to stop standing where you can see them." If someone does that and calls themselves a Christian, I really want to know what the hell Bible they're reading.

But as much as my faith is an integral part of my life, as much as it's so important to me that in the last several years, I've not had a cross around my neck exactly seven times (two round airport trips, three lines that broke/chafed from overuse) this offends me even more as a football fan.

Sport should be apolitical. If Connor Barwin wants to use his stature as one of the best players in a , that's fine. If Tim Tebow decides to use his to oppose abortion, fine, I disagree. But Tebow's praying after doesn't make a touchdown worth more than nine points, and Barwin's gay brother doesn't mean Texans opponents only need three downs.

I am disgusted by seeing something like that, even on a minor youth team, from the sport that brings me so much joy, and from the sport that clearly brings this girl so much joy...

The love of sport comes first. Messing with someone for their gender, for something OTHER people MIGHT want to do. Well, to borrow a phrase from another sport...

That's just not cricket.

[Ginger Tea]

OK we don't have the sport over here, and baseball is played as Rounders and predominantly girls (along with netball as most were slack about other sports outside of football rugby and depending on where you lived Cricket).

But the only known instances of women in American football end up being that underwear touch variety, so any woman automatically gets rule 34'd just for holding a helmet (pun not intended).

I know the touch rules are less physical than what is played in college and NFL, but when do schools transition to full/more contact?

They could be foreseeing a case of a tackle is classed as groping, you get a player who is going to take down the opponent with the ball regardless if they have any between their legs, play is legit, but one hand ends up (by accident) somewhere on the torso, next thing you know no player wants to tackle her cos who knows what is going to be the outcome.

We do still raise boys to not hit girls, it takes a few beat downs in the dojo for a boy to decide "OK in the ring it's OK to hit a girl" and we have seen matches forfeited due to the opposing team either being all girls or mixed and although most are just down to pure sexism, there could come a time where they end up tackling someone and it could just get awkward.

Yes it would be nice that the coach would say to the team, I don't care if she's a girl, if she gets the ball you hit her and you hit her hard, just like anyone else, but as it's touch football it's not quite the case, but if it ever progressed in the styles the gloves come off, but then you might get people who would just target her regardless, jocks will be jocks.

[Andara Bledin]

I know the touch rules are less physical than what is played in college and NFL, but when do schools transition to full/more contact?

Touch is a different sport than full contact.

They start off small with pee wee leagues and by the time they hit middle school, they're usually up to full contact already.

It's stupid from a physiological standpoint, but she's been playing tackle football the entire time.

[Greenday]

Ginger, tackling usually starts around 6-7 year olds. There aren't any competitive touch football leagues.

One thing I've never seen brought up is dog piles. Bad stuff happens in dog piles. Pinching, biting, balls grabbing, eye gouging. It all happens in the pile to get you to let go of the football. And God knows what some guys will do to get a girl to drop the ball in a pile in competitive football.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

I know the touch rules are less physical than what is played in college and NFL, but when do schools transition to full/more contact?

They could be foreseeing a case of a tackle is classed as groping, you get a player who is going to take down the opponent with the ball regardless if they have any between their legs, play is legit, but one hand ends up (by accident) somewhere on the torso, next thing you know no player wants to tackle her cos who knows what is going to be the outcome.

We do still raise boys to not hit girls, it takes a few beat downs in the dojo for a boy to decide "OK in the ring it's OK to hit a girl" and we have seen matches forfeited due to the opposing team either being all girls or mixed and although most are just down to pure sexism, there could come a time where they end up tackling someone and it could just get awkward.

Let me start by saying "let her play" but I do want to answer and pull this apart from your example. Around 7th and 8th grade in Texas at least is where we're talking full tackle. That's the age where guys hit puberty and actually start snapping legs in practice so she's close to it.

The bigger issue is going to be weight differentials. In wrestling, you are classed by weight so a woman going up against a man that are still in the same weight class are entirely compatible and the difference will be muscle density and skill. It works just fine. Football tends to have men of a variety of weight differentials on the field at the same time. If you're small and tough, you might survive it and many do to become great players (although to be small and professional you're talking in the 200 lbs. range) but the liklihood of concussion and injury starts escalating rapidly.

So saying that, when I say let her play I'm also saying understand she will now be exposed to a high level of violence, things like oklahoma drills, and scenarios where she will probably probably get left behind athletically. She will be an incredibly tough person with what she learns, but as the men develop physically unless she has some very specific genetics she will most likely find herself sitting or benched. And no, opposing coaches will be saying things like "take her out" because that's how competitive football is viewed. She won't get the easy treatment at all even a few times. If she does it correctly though, she'll have a team that will absolutely respond with her. I'm just not sure you could shoot for anything better than a Rudy symbolic ending.

I'm not sure players being handsy will be such an issue as it's pretty much a given that you try to wrap up someone any way you can. Actually getting to the... umm... no no areas would really require some work since both areas would be under padding which is under the uniform. It sounds like a valid complaint until you think about what you'd actually have to do to be creepy and sexual. But yea, she may find herself quite abused in a dogpile but that goes for everyone.

[Greenday]

So what padding is going to protect a woman from having her genitals messed with? She won't be wearing a cup. Shoulder pads are easy enough to get around and under.

[Andara Bledin]

Regarding the size issue: First, she's not exactly a shrinking voilet. Second, if she is outmassed and outclassed, then she'll be off the team based on merit and not that she's female. It would sort itself out without some pervy religious CEO talking about impure thoughts.

So what padding is going to protect a woman from having her genitals messed with? She won't be wearing a cup. Shoulder pads are easy enough to get around and under.

There's actually nothing to suggest she won't be wearing a cup, and safety rules would suggest that she most likely will be. Just not a cup designed for boys.

Plus, she's already been on the team, so she's already gotten the same treatment as the other members, or they don't engage in those sorts of shenanigans.

Seriously, banning her from playing because the other side might engage in unpleasant practices is nearly as bad as banning her from playing because they might have impure thoughts.

[Ginger Tea]

My not having NFL football in school had me thinking it was touch football sans padding etc, as tbh no one wears anything more than dentures in rugby (well those are taken out prior), if she's got padding it's hard to do a boob grab by accident, but those wanting to do one by 'accident' do have to work that little bit harder.

Mind you all my high school football knowledge comes from TV and movies where teenagers are played by 20somethings and it's been so long since I was her age I cant remember how big people were, so most of what I've typed below might not matter size/weight wise till more college years?

Again not sure on the technical terms and positions available, but after a while her size/weight would be more suited to receiving the ball, unless she gains the pounds her going up against another in blocking would be a bit unbalanced, or just the guy who punts and takes field goals.

Rushers have a target on their back long before they get the ball as people judge which of the 3 or so would be receiving the ball, but she just might get more of a larger target on her just because she's a girl, so the quarterback might throw to someone else less covered up the field.
Yes the good players do get this too but the quarterback might just forgo her position too many times due to guys wanting to be the one to bring the girl down hard to teach her for being on the field and not having pompoms.

And as the kicker, she would spend a lot of the match on the bench and might even be the 3rd choice, so she's there in the match but not.

And it would be a cold day in hell when the team let's her be the quarterback as I'm to understand that is the coveted position.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Exactly. You're talking tight pants and a cup. In order to get frisky you're going to have to move the cup which is difficult even if no one tries to stop you. And the shoulder pads are going to protect the upper body for the most part.

As for her size, that's why I say let her play. The field sorts that out. If she realizes she's having her head taken off every week either she'll stop or someone else will stop her (as in a coach). But she is in the range where testosterone starts kicking in for the boys which means their muscle mass will be growing more quickly on average. There's a reason some boys start as dominant and can't make it as time goes on and other boys ride the bench until they hit high school. There's nothing inherently fair about how nature will play into it.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

@Ginger - I would guess receiver or RB as well as those tend to be shorter and faster. The trick is she has to be faster. If she has a temporary reach advantage and a speed advantage she might be able to survive as a cornerback for a while as well. At a younger age it will work but unless she plans on bulking up she'll start getting knocked around in high school.

QB isn't going to be a problem because she's a girl or because it's coveted. It's because the people who get those positions will get them in a tryout where frankly upper body strength is a big deal. Accuracy is great, but if you can't deliver it fast enough it's going to get picked off as everyone gets older. QB is about intelligence (which she certainly could have) and the ability to fire a ball quickly which is greatly enhanced by size (ball grip) and upper body strength which one would not expect on average would be her strength. We could all be wrong, but we just wouldn't expect it.

[Greenday]

@Ginger - I would guess receiver or RB as well as those tend to be shorter and faster.

Short people really don't turn out well as wide receivers. It's very rare to see a short person succeed in that position.

If she's fast and has good lower body strength, she could be a running back. Kicker, punter, and returner are all possibilities.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Again, speed. The modern WR tends to be taller but traditionally that hasn't been a requirement. If you can get sufficient separation, you can excel at that position. Let's just put it this way, you do better as a Marvin Harrison, Joey Galloway, Rahib Ishmael type at WR than you do linebacker, o or d line, or quarterback. Yea, short guys exist at linebacker but they usually are extremely bulky.

I'm not saying saying she won't have difficulty if it becomes a scramble for the ball, but she could probably survive it.

[Hyena Dandy]

Short people really don't turn out well as wide receivers. It's very rare to see a short person succeed in that position.

If she's fast and has good lower body strength, she could be a running back. Kicker, punter, and returner are all possibilities.

Again not sure on the technical terms and positions available, but after a while her size/weight would be more suited to receiving the ball, unless she gains the pounds her going up against another in blocking would be a bit unbalanced, or just the guy who punts and takes field goals.

She can be whatever the hell she wants to be. NFL players come in a lot of sizes. Larry Izzo, pro bowl Linebacker, was only 5'10. Sam Mills, There are current linemen at 5'11, including Dumervil. That's tall for a girl, but not gigantic.

If the kid can play Defensive Tackle, she should play Defensive Tackle. If she can't play Defensive Tackle, she shouldn't. This article doesn't discuss her height, and tall, strong women are unusual, but they do, in fact, exist. If she doesn't want to play Kicker (Which she doesn't - Her mother told her to play Kicker, and she refused to) she shouldn't be kept to playing a position she doesn't like because the average girl couldn't.

I've seen nothing about her height here. Just assumptions that she's small. She might be pretty small. She might be unusually tall or strong, for a girl. High-level football is about exceptional people. If she's exceptionally tall, exceptionally fast, exceptionally strong, exceptionally whatever, let her play whatever position she wants, even if MOST girls couldn't.


Edit: My point in listing the people earlier shouldn't be construed as "Oh, but they were guys." They weren't just guys, they were exceptional guys. And a girl can be an exceptional girl, and she can make it.