Uh....*BSOD* (school-related)

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Hyena, honestly that's because we can really only project based on our incredible lack of information which I assume is tall and athletic for a girl if she's extremely sporty, but that still puts her at average to below average for a guy once testosterone kicks in. Yea, it makes us horrible human beings for several years, but it's why we get so big and why we bulk up. She could be exceptional, but if we're just doing spitball projections I just don't feel comfy projecting her as future NFL material. She could be, but I wouldn't lump that kind of pressure on her. I just want her to be able to play football if she wants to.

[Andara Bledin]

It really doesn't matter one whit whether she's exceptional or not, now or in the future. What reproductive equipment she does or does not have is also utterly beside the point.

If she can keep up, then she should be allowed to. If she can't, then she'll be weeded out just like every other athlete who doesn't make the cut.

[Ladeeda]

The reproductive organs aren't entering the equation. The muscle mass, height, and weight are.

There's more difference between boys and girls than genitals. Girls get tall around 4th or 5th grade. Boys get tall and musclular around high school. Males err towards more muscle ratio than fat, while females tend toward more fat than muscle.

So, no, she really can't just be anything she wants to be by wanting to be. Or shouldn't be. Same way the scrawny kid from chess club shouldn't be a linebacker. Any sane coach would not 1) put a player in the kind of danger the wrong build could result in or 2) screw up the chances of winning by putting in players who can't play that postion as well as someone else could.

[Andara Bledin]

The reproductive organs aren't entering the equation.

Which question are you talking about?

Because, she's being barred from playing because of her reproductive organs.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Because, she's being barred from playing because of her reproductive organs.

I think everyone agreed on this thread that she should be able to play and that those organs weren't a valid factor for the administrator.

I think the confusion stems from the fact you chose wording in the previous comment that referenced mine (talking about exceptionalism) and I was talking about weight differentials and possible positioning having already said that she should be able to play, we were just jabbering about where a growing woman might have the most success on the field. And it does matter, because school sports tends to be a meritocracy so in the wrong place she could absolutely ride the bench and never play, so a poorly chosen position will have about the same net effect as an administrator being sexist because she'll be cut.

I admit the first time I read your post, I almost sent a post saying "I don't think we're disagreeing." I did think you were picking at my point so I'm not surprised someone else might have seen the same thing. I'm still not so sure you weren't, I just figured it may have been the odd way I was reading it so I didn't really respond.

[Andara Bledin]

And it does matter, because school sports tends to be a meritocracy so in the wrong place she could absolutely ride the bench and never play, so a poorly chosen position will have about the same net effect as an administrator being sexist because she'll be cut.

It might have the same net effect on the field for that season, but it will have an effect off the field and it will have an effect on future seasons. And even then, when you consider that the other players want her on the team, the decision, even if it turns out to be in sync with what would have happened naturally, will still have a net effect on how the games progress.

[wolfie]

But there's a BIG difference between privately telling her "Up until now, you've been good enough to be first-string, but everyone on the team is now at the point where the guys are going to be getting a lot bigger, stronger, and faster, while you're not. As a result, there's a high probability that, within a year or two, you won't be good enough, and we'll have to drop you from the team", and what actually happened, which was "You can't play football because you're a girl".

She got onto the team through merit (i.e. before anyone reached puberty, she was big, strong, fast, and skilled enough to earn a spot), so if she loses the spot on a merit basis (i.e. skill isn't enough if, after puberty, everyone else is a lot bigger, stronger, and faster than she is), that's just the way things go.

[Greenday]

Byy the way, she plays defensive tackle. I found an interview on USA Today.

DTs are usually the biggest and strongest guys on the field.

[Ginger Tea]

Again, not American so this sport is not taught over here, is the team she is on mixed years or the years team?
I ask as we had football in sports lessons but we also had a mixed age school team for competitive events.
If she is in a year team, then it would be telling when she sees the players a year or more older than she is and say "These will be the kinds of players you will be up against in two years time." so she has a more visual idea of what she should do to up her game to compete and as Greenday pointed out, DT's are the brick shit houses of the field.

And as another post put it, they could have cut her diplomatically just as they would a weaker male player.

[Cats]

While it is semi-relevant to discuss the fact that boys are generally taller and stronger than girls and it is a legit concern, I think it's being overblown. This is only middle school we're talking about here. Yes, male puberty starts kicking in, but they are not full grown men, nor do they instantly become them with higher testosterone levels.

While they are far and few between, there ARE girls who play on boy's High School football teams. WITH full grown boys. My senior year in high school there was a girl player on the team, and she managed just fine (there was also a male football cheerleader. He was awesome).

Also, forgive me if I'm ignorant or just have my knowledge wrong/mixed up (it could vary state to state as well), but isn't it ILLEGAL to bar someone from a school team stictly based on their gender if there is no other available team?

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Cats - That just goes back to let her play. We're not really overblowing anything rather than just realistically waxing pointlessly about how she might fare over time. Since we're defaulting to let her play, she can continue to do so until she can't. And actually being at a private school might help as the atheletic talent level will probably be less than on a public team.

You're referring to title IX and honestly I'm not really sure. I would think so, but then I've seen stories about boys denied the ability to play Volleyball on girls teams when no alternative exists so I'm not sure it's that clear cut.

[Greenday]

While it is semi-relevant to discuss the fact that boys are generally taller and stronger than girls and it is a legit concern, I think it's being overblown. This is only middle school we're talking about here. Yes, male puberty starts kicking in, but they are not full grown men, nor do they instantly become them with higher testosterone levels.

My little cousin plays peewee football. The program now has an unlimited weight category for the older kids that are just plain big. The kids on the team last year were nearly as big as me. I'm 5'8" and 191lbs. And a lot of these kids were in better shape than I am.

[Ladeeda]

Eh, if people weren't discussing the potentials of the future, it'd just be a thread of "Yup, yup, yup", since there's no logical reason to arbitrarily deny her a place on the team.

[Gravekeeper]

Of all the potential more legitimate sounding reasons that could have been used, they went with "Ya'll got boobs now. Boys like those. You should be ashamed for having them."? >.>

In my high school, PE was mixed until grade 10 and we did play various sports with mixed teams before that ( Though football was flag football where you had a belt with velcro flags on it that people had to tear off you to "tackle" ). We played other mixed physical sports though ( soccer, basketball, etc ).

But the official school teams were gender segregated from the get go. To avoid this exact problem I would assume. That said, high school is grade 8-12 here. So if she was here, she would still be on a mixed team in intermediate school.

Although in fairness, football is not a big thing in Canada. There were no school football teams. Soccer, lacrosse, track and field, swimming, basketball, etc sure. But no football team.

I feel bad for her, football seems like a seriously male dominated sport. Especially in the US. Anything resembling a women's football league seems to involve putting on a hot pink bikini and a helmet to serve as wank material for low brow males. There's barely enough interest in it to drum up a world league ( It only has 6 teams and they played all of one tournament so far ).

There's some regional women's leagues in Canada, but football is largely America's thing. Everyone else plays soccer. She should see if she can't transition into soccer if she wants to eventually play something professionally.

As is, the women playing in the US's women's football league only make $100 bucks a game. The only way to make decent money playing football for a woman right now is this fucking embarrassment.

[Greenday]

You'll find some powderpuff leagues (Which really is a sexist name tbh) but those are all casual things. I coached a powderpuff team in college and I had some great athletes. We dominated, but none of them would have survived tackle football with guys. There's just too big a gap at that level by that point (college).