Twist on rape

[Kheldarson]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...virginity.html

A girl, now 18, pretended to be a boy for three and a half years and slept with her "girlfriend", now 16, three different times.

In the dark, using a strap-on.

The court's giving her three years in jail, and she has to be on the Sex Offenders' Register for life now.

The court's calling it rape because the victim was misled by the older girl as to the elder's gender. The article indicates that the three sex sessions were also difficult (probably due to the sex toy).

What say you all?

[Greenday]

Well, she clearly lied to take advantage of a younger girl so it makes sense. It's just ridiculous the lengths she went to do this.

[s_stabeler]

it's not rape, but what the woman did should be illegal. (specifically the fact that the victim was decieved- assuming both parties know the truth, you can pretend to be a monkey in bed for all I care)

[Andara Bledin]

Whether or not this was legally considered rape would hinge on the idea of whether the deception is enough to nullify consent.

[Panacea]

Well, you can't make informed consent when the information you are given is a lie.

I'm still not sure that rises to the level of rape, but I do think it is a sex offense of some king.

[violiav]

Wasn't this part of the plot of "Boys Don't Cry"?

[Sarah Valentine]

INAL but isn't that kinda somehow rape by deception or rape by fraud or something?

[LadyBarbossa]

There are lots of women who enjoy strap on sex with other women. However, that's their thing. If the girl wouldn't normally be ok with having sex with another female, I agree that you can't call it informed consent. I honestly think this was pretty disgusting.

Why didn't she just seek out an informed and willing partner instead?

[Medea]

I remember this incident. There was a TV show about it a year ago, I think?

Looking at the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (which would apply to this case), this crime cannot literally be described as rape under s.1, since the penetration has to be with a penis.

The offence she committed is a s.2 offence - assault by penetration. The maximum sentence for both of these crimes is the same.

There are a number of ways to invalidate consent to sexual acts listed in the act, but I must admit that I couldn't find a condition that would apply to the defendant's gender. The closest I could find came under s.76(2)(b) - "the defendant intentionally induced the complainant to consent to the relevant act by impersonating a person known personally to the complainant." (s.76 SOA 2003)

This case has added to the law, stating that deception as to the defendant's gender may be enough to invalidate consent. I cannot hold it against the lawmakers that they did not include a provision in the 2003 Act.

By the legal definition, this is not rape. However, personally, I would call this rape. Given McNally's gender confusion, I would argue that she viewed it as her 'penis' and used it to penetrate the victim against her will. (FREUD ALERT!) I do not know if this argument was brought up in court as neither the transcript or report is available.

The case analysis reveals that she appealed against the sentence. As the article states, she was originally sentenced to 3 years in custody. Having served 3 months in custody between this trial and the appeal, she is now sentenced to 9 months' detention suspended for 2 years, together with a supervision order for 2 years, as of 27th June 2013. I'm afraid I can't link to this as I'm accessing a database of case law that I have access to through my college (I'm a law student - searched: McNally & penetration) and I can't find a news article on it either.

The reduction in the sentence is due to the fact that McNally did not abuse any LEGAL position of trust. This is yet another time when 'legal' and 'practical' do not have the same meaning.

[Ginger Tea]

I remember over a decade ago a similar situation, no idea on the specifics like age country or when aside from late 90's.
The lights would always be off and she always refused blowjobs.

When asked why she did it and not have sex with a girl being a girl, she said she didn't want to have sex with a lesbian, she wanted to have sex with a woman who wanted sex with a man.

Had she been honest and told her up front that she was transsexual there probably would not have been a case as there would not have been a relationship to begin with.

The same might be said for this case, but also the world has moved on and these things are less taboo.


Now you will note that I am saying she and not he, as this was so long ago that the idea of gender identity wasn't as well known at the time and it never followed up with if she was undergoing surgery to become male at the time.
Also there are other words like CIS and transgender but I would have to look up which is which, but transsexual (although probably the least vulgar form of the 3 used in pornography) is at least more uniform than trying to remember if this phrase works for this situation or if I should use that one instead.

[Panacea]

hy didn't she just seek out an informed and willing partner instead?

She probably didn't want to admit she was lesbian, bi, or transgender.

Pretty selfish of her, no matter what her reasoning. You don't lie to someone you are "in love" with.

[violiav]

Maybe she was in some bizarre state of denial? Isn't that part of gender dysphoria? Should a person be legally obligated to identify themselves by their birth gender even of they don't fully identify with said gender?
Calling it rape/sexual assault seems after that fact seems a bit much, I think. Say, if a person knows they are gay and enters into a sexual relationship with a straight woman and he reveals later that he's gay, can she say "rape by deception"?
Or is this different because it deals with gender identity questions and the individuals are of the same biological gender?
Is she still living as a girl, or does she go back and forth?

[Hyena Dandy]

There's a pretty heavy debate amongst trans people, about when you're supposed to disclose that you're trans in a relationship. On the one hand, you shouldn't have to tell everyone you meet, immediately, on the off-chance they might want to have sex with you, and feel bad about being attracted to a trans person. On the other hand, pretty much every trans person I know (admittedly, not too many) agree that you SHOULD be disclosing sometime BEFORE you get in bed with them.

It's one thing to say "Actually, I'm gay." The sex, at least, was what you thought you were getting. But you should never put something in someone's body that they don't actually want put in their body. That includes a strap-on.

Edit: Also, I totally misread this as "Twist-on Rape"

[Nekojin]

Edit: Also, I totally misread this as "Twist-on Rape"

The horror!

(You aren't the only one.)

[Panacea]

Maybe she was in some bizarre state of denial? Isn't that part of gender dysphoria? Should a person be legally obligated to identify themselves by their birth gender even of they don't fully identify with said gender?
Calling it rape/sexual assault seems after that fact seems a bit much, I think. Say, if a person knows they are gay and enters into a sexual relationship with a straight woman and he reveals later that he's gay, can she say "rape by deception"?
Or is this different because it deals with gender identity questions and the individuals are of the same biological gender?
Is she still living as a girl, or does she go back and forth?

I don't know the specifics about this girl; if she is lesbian or transgender, or had some other motivation. However, it is unethical to have sex with someone while misrepresenting such an important part of who you are to your partner.

I think it's OK for a transgender person to tell a potential partner they are their mental gender, but if they are serious about the relationship OR begin or plan to begin sexual activity they must tell their partner.

Many straight people do not want a relationship or sex with a transgender person. I certainly do not; to me it's the same as engaging in homosexual behavior and that is not something I have any interest in. Other straight people don't have a problem with it as long as their partner is fully committed to the gender role they have assumed (it's the best word I can come up with to describe what really happens; sorry). But they should have fully informed consent and be able to make that choice BEFORE things get serious.

Failing to do this is extremely selfish and disrespectful to your partner. It is abuse.