Cop Shoots Dog, Outrage Ensues

[Greenday]

Cop Shoots Dog: Possibly Upsetting

Police's video

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jul...e-dog-20130707

Here's the deal. The police were in the middle of a standoff with a someone when they responded to an armed robbery. There's a small crowd, but they are being respectful, filming from across the street from all the action. This guy, from what I've been able to gather, rolled up in his car, blasting super loud music (As you can hear in the video), stands right near all the action, and starts filming the cops with his cell phone while taunting them. All this, plus he decided it was a great time to walk his Rottweiler. The cops obviously are already amped up, dealing with an armed suspect in a standoff. They ask the guy to turn down the music, the guy puts his dog back in the car, then he goes back (Not having turned the music down) and proceeds to argue with the cops. The cops, sick of his crap, decided to arrest him for obstructing justice. The dog sees his master being arrested and jumps out the wide open window and barks and acts aggressively towards the cops. Finally, the dog lunges at one of the cops as if to attack him and the cop draws and fires four shots, mortally wounding the dog.

So now, of course, everyone is complaining about how the police are such horrible people. Look, I love dogs. I've been bit by a strange German Shepard and managed to stare it into submission. I know how to handle dogs. But does the cops not have a right to defend themselves? Rottweilers are strong enough to kill a human. It wouldn't be the first time. The cops tried to defuse the situation, but the owner acted irresponsibly and the dog paid for it. I just can't fault the police for this and I really feel for the owner. I'd be devastated if anything happened to my dogs.

[Andara Bledin]

I don't have the opportunity to read up on it just yet, but if the facts are as presented in the OP, then I don't feel for the owner at all, as he is the architect of the entire situation. I do, however, feel for the dog, who was doing nothing more than what dogs have been doing for centuries.

[s_stabeler]

looks to me like the dog was trying to attack the police. self-defense on the part of te police, owner shouldn't have been such an asshole.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

I love dogs, but the dog wasn't trained worth a damn and the owner had no control at that point. Hell, really early in the video you can see how he controls the dog with a huge jerk of the leash.

Meanwhile you have cops that are being forced to keep their backs to the armed robbery behind them to deal with it. The dog is obviously confused because it sees its owner in distress.

I don't like this outcome and I think it was forced by the idiot they were arresting. Maybe they could have tasered it? Still, that's an awful lot to ask for a cop that is already in a potentially deadly situation behind them and is having to deal with this guy and his dog.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

And actually, from the LA Times article, it's nice to see Anonymous promising revenge. I guess after realizing how little power they had against real bad guys like Mexican drug cartels that murder people on a regular basis, we're back to seeing them deal with this marginal BS.

[Nekojin]

Judging by the descriptions (having not followed any of the links), I'd be asking the DA why they're not filing Obstruction charges on this guy, since it's obvious that he was interfering with a legal police action in progress.

And, like Andara said, I feel for the dog - terrible owner leads to a sad death.

[Gravekeeper]

You know the first time I saw this story it was the complete opposite extreme in tone ( against the cops ). I would say the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Yes, the guy is a dumbass, but leaping immediately to lethal force ( instead of his spray or tazer ) with the dog was a bad judgement call. The officer is the one that puts his hand in the dog's face first. Prompting a snap at him. If the dog had really intended to chow down on a cop, it would have charged. Not backed off then sniffed something on the ground.

He put the dog in the car, but I doubt he was expecting to get arrested immediately when the cops walked over to talk to him. Otherwise he might have rolled the windows up. One generally doesn't expect an obstruction charge for shitty music.

Any dog is going to wonder whats up if you jump on his owner. Blowing his dog away ( 4 rounds seems a tad overkill ) over an questionable obstruction charge did nothing but turn the whole community against the police department. I doubt the charge itself will stick.

TL;DR: Dude's an idiot, but the cop mishandled the situation. In the court of public opinion, blowing away a dog in front of a crowd is much much worse than being an idiot.

[Duelist925]

I have to agree with GK. Having seen the video, the guy was an utter idiot, but the cops mishandled the situation, and jumped immediately to lethal force when it wasn't called for.

I understand why they did, but they did just about everything wrong with dealing with the animal.

[Greenday]

I have to agree with GK. Having seen the video, the guy was an utter idiot, but the cops mishandled the situation, and jumped immediately to lethal force when it wasn't called for.

I understand why they did, but they did just about everything wrong with dealing with the animal.

If the officer was brutally torn apart but survived because they used a non-lethal method against an enraged animal, would that have been acceptable to you?

[Gravekeeper]

If the officer was brutally torn apart but survived because they used a non-lethal method against an enraged animal, would that have been acceptable to you?

Oh, please. That's not what happened here and trying to say otherwise is either being biased or dishonest. Again, if a brutal chewing apart was going to ensue it would have right out of the gate. The cop was the one that prompted being snapped at which he then shot the dog multiple times for. The dog was not "enraged". You'd know if a dog was enraged because it would have come flying at the cop. Also, unless you're suggesting the dog is coked up on speed, a tazer would work just fine.

Here's an actual enraged dog attack and subsequent tazing. Similar size and breed. Note that these cops had much less time to react and still opted to taze over just unloading into the dog at the slightest provocation.

[Greenday]

Here's an actual enraged dog attack and subsequent tazing. Similar size and breed. Note that these cops had much less time to react and still opted to taze over just unloading into the dog at the slightest provocation.

First off, in the OP, the guy was going for the dog's leash to try to restrain the dog.

Second, the dog lunged multiple times at the cop and the cop was lucky the dog kept missing. If the dog got it's target the first time, he would have been destroyed by that dog before he could have found his tazer.

[Andara Bledin]

I have no idea what type of dog that was that tried to get in the cop's face in that video, Gravekeeper, but it looks to be a good 10 to 20 lbs lighter than the Rottie in the OP video.

Ok, finally having watched the entire video, I have to say that it and the one just linked are only marginally comparable in that they both involve dogs that are not under their owner's control and both also involve police.

The officer is the one that puts his hand in the dog's face first. Prompting a snap at him.

The officer in question is trying to grab the dog's leash, which is about what you'd expect almost anyone in that situation to do, particularly as the dog is not behaving in an aggressive manner at that point. He clearly wasn't expecting the dog to jump and snap at his hand, which is why he reacted so poorly when it did. One of the police statements made note of the fact that officers don't receive any training on dealing with hostile animals, either.

It's also worth noting that this is after a stand-off of unknown duration which required there to be SWAT called onto the scene. I know we all love to play armchair experts from the comfort of our living rooms, but the vast majority of posters here have zero experience in such a situation.

He put the dog in the car, but I doubt he was expecting to get arrested immediately when the cops walked over to talk to him. Otherwise he might have rolled the windows up.

He may not have expected to be arrested, but he certainly appeared to be trying to provoke the police.

It's a shitty situation, and from the perspective of anyone who has experience with dogs and is watching from the quiet comfort of their home, he reacted poorly.

What's deplorable, though, is the fact that people who happen to have the same name as the police spokesman, who wasn't even on the scene have received death threats to their families over this. Even the dog's owner has gone on record to tell people to calm the fuck down.

What the ever-loving hell is wrong with people?

[Duelist925]

If the officer was brutally torn apart but survived because they used a non-lethal method against an enraged animal, would that have been acceptable to you?

No. And nowhere in my post did I indicate I felt in such a way. Do not jump to a hyperbolic extreme just because you disagree with me. Present an actual argument instead.

First off, in the OP, the guy was going for the dog's leash to try to restrain the dog.

Second, the dog lunged multiple times at the cop and the cop was lucky the dog kept missing. If the dog got it's target the first time, he would have been destroyed by that dog before he could have found his tazer.

The dog as posturing, trying to scare a perceived threat off. Had he actually been trying to bite the dude, the dude would have been bleeding. Badly. The animal had not escalated to that point yet. Notice how he pulls back from each lunge without it even coming close to connecting. And how he pulls back and sniffs the ground, seemingly calm.

This is not a wildly aggressive animal. This is a worried, confused, stressed animal, which is why it reacted the way it did to something getting into its face--most dogs, unless given the necessary training, do not like having strangers shit in their faces, especially when already stressed out. Family, "pack", sure, but a stranger who seems to be hurting a family member? No.

I have no idea what type of dog that was that tried to get in the cop's face in that video, Gravekeeper, but it looks to be a good 10 to 20 lbs lighter than the Rottie in the OP video.

Ok, finally having watched the entire video, I have to say that it and the one just linked are only marginally comparable in that they both involve dogs that are not under their owner's control and both also involve police.

Body size doesn't mean much to a taser. I've seen vids of guys who could give The Rock a run for his muscle money, and they went down just as fast as any, due to the way tasers incapacitate people, what with the electricity forcing every muscle to contract.

Size of the dog doesn't mean much when it comes to its reaction to being tasered.

The officer in question is trying to grab the dog's leash, which is about what you'd expect almost anyone in that situation to do, particularly as the dog is not behaving in an aggressive manner at that point. He clearly wasn't expecting the dog to jump and snap at his hand, which is why he reacted so poorly when it did. One of the police statements made note of the fact that officers don't receive any training on dealing with hostile animals, either.

He did react poorly however. And police really, REALLY should be given some basic training regarding hostile animals, considering it's highly likely they may have to deal with them.

It's also worth noting that this is after a stand-off of unknown duration which required there to be SWAT called onto the scene. I know we all love to play armchair experts from the comfort of our living rooms, but the vast majority of posters here have zero experience in such a situation.

No argument here.

He may not have expected to be arrested, but he certainly appeared to be trying to provoke the police.

Dude was a grade A jackass. >.< Friggan idiot.

It's a shitty situation, and from the perspective of anyone who has experience with dogs and is watching from the quiet comfort of their home, he reacted poorly.

What's deplorable, though, is the fact that people who happen to have the same name as the police spokesman, who wasn't even on the scene have received death threats to their families over this. Even the dog's owner has gone on record to tell people to calm the fuck down.

What the ever-loving hell is wrong with people?

All kinds of fucked up shit. I love dogs, I love dogs a LOT, and I wouldn't go to this extreme. =/

People get really freaking outraged over shit like this. Overly so.

[Andara Bledin]

Size of the dog doesn't mean much when it comes to its reaction to being tasered.

No, but it makes a lot of difference to the one who thinks he's being attacked.

We used to have two older dogs here that belonged to my brother. One was about the same build as the smaller dog shown, while the other was much closer to the one that got shot.

Speaking from actual experience dealing with the dogs fighting (which is a whole other rant), I would much, much, much rather deal with the lighter one than the heaver because I could reliably manhandle the lighter one. The heavier one, were it to be required, would force me to resort to using a tool or weapon in order to protect myself because when it comes down to a choice between the dog or me, I'm going to choose me every single time.

He did react poorly however. And police really, REALLY should be given some basic training regarding hostile animals, considering it's highly likely they may have to deal with them.

It would be nice, but with how poorly staffed so many police forces are (hell, my city doesn't even have it's own police force, and I'm not far outside of Los Angeles), it's probably down the list a ways.

[Greenday]

Could the officer have used less lethal force? Sure. But as it appears to me, while watching the video, the dog gave a couple warning feints, and on the final one seemed to be a legit attack attempt as it was a clear lunge to get at the officer. Deadly force wasn't unjustified in such an incident. It sucks, it's horrible, and it could have gone a lot better. But we also could have ended up with a mutilated human being which is NEVER acceptable.