Cop Shoots Dog, Outrage Ensues

[Ginger Tea]

Your new postman

[Aethian]

Your new postman

No...just no.



I've been bitten by dogs that run to the door when the owner answers, I've been accidentally bitten by one dog that brings us his ball to throw when we drop off the mail, I've been bitten by one dog who jumped into my truck because he thought the girl who was running to collect the mail was in danger.

One carrier in one of my offices still has problems from the bite to her face that severed one if the tendons. Another carrier had to get a knee replaced cause of the way the dog bit when the carrier tried getting away.

My worst bite however was from a small terrier that caught my hand when I put my hand to the mail slot and had to get a magazine unhooked from whatever it got hooked up on.

[Nekojin]

Let me drill into that a little further. I was meaning that compared to a Cop that absolutely may very well be invading the home and causing visible distress to the owner, a mail carrier is non-threatening.

As in, you could see the territorial behavior being an issue, but you couldn't really make the case that the mail carrier is even in the same vicinity in terms of aggressive behavior that a cop may very well be if he's on your property.

Just to be clear on something - dogs don't have higher cognition. They don't get into trying to figure out "how much" something is a threat. It either is a threat, or it isn't. A mail carrier either is a threat, or he isn't. They're not comparing it on a sliding scale against police officers and dogcatchers - a threat is a threat. They would make no distinction between the mail carrier and the police officer in your scenario - both are strangers intruding on what they perceive as their territory.

[Tanasi]

I can find very little fault with how the LEOs handled this. As someone that seen the act and the results of being bitten in the face by a large dog, I would have also shot the dog and I wouldn't have stopped until I was empty. I'm not gonna get bit and I'm not gonna get chewed on.
Several years ago I was letting a carpet cleaner into a house when I heard the dog in the back yard barking as being mad. I was going around the corner to calm him thinking he didn't like the carpet cleaners. As I turned the corner I went nose to nose with a neighbors dog dragging it's chain. It immediately dropped into a fighting stance and I started giving ground but keeping my eyes on the dog ( it was a big retriever breed). At the same time I was digging for my gun on to find I had left it in the car and I didn't even have a pocket knife on me. I didn't want to fight this dog by hand but I was confident I would prevail. I kept giving ground and when I gave enough the dog broke and run.
Informed the neighbor that his vicious dog was loose again but he didn't care. I killed the dog the next day when it tried to attack a woman with two kids and a small dog that were out for a walk. Keep your critters at home and on a lead. In my AO all pets must be on a leash at all times when outside the home. Especially snakes (that's another story.)

[Gravekeeper]

So, in your scenario you had a known vicious dog that was off leash with no owner around. You made a mistake in your behaviour ( You do not stare down a dog, that's a challenge to them ) with your first encounter with it and lucked out because it submitted to you instead of challenging. Then the second time around you killed it mid attack.

In the op scenario, it was just a big, insecure dog getting excited because his owner was being accosted. At that point, several options were open to deal with the dog. Instead, the cop inadvertently provoked the animal and then shot it for the response he himself provoked.

I find the fact you would do likewise in the same scenario as the op to be somewhat disappointing. But likewise the cop may have had a similar past bias when he took that course of action.

[Andara Bledin]

You made a mistake in your behaviour ( You do not stare down a dog, that's a challenge to them ) with your first encounter with it and lucked out because it submitted to you instead of challenging.

You might want to go back and reread what was written. In your haste to point out how Tanasi did the wrong thing, you've managed to read more into what was done than was stated.

... I started giving ground but keeping my eyes on the dog...

Unless "keeping eyes on the dog" involved keeping eye contact, then what Tanasi did is pretty much what one should do when faced with an aggressive dog.

[Gravekeeper]

Unless "keeping eyes on the dog" involved keeping eye contact, then what Tanasi did is pretty much what one should do when faced with an aggressive dog.

Very well, but the dog broke and ran, which is what a submitting dog would do after a staring contest. Since Tanasi did not specify watching the dog's body/feet/whatever, I would assume they were looking in the vicinity of the face/mouth as that would be the natural reaction if you didn't know better.

I do not find Tanasi's situation and the op situation to be similar, and thus am disappointed at the declaration of lethal force. And yes, I have been chewed on by dogs before so its not a case of me just not knowing how terrifying that can be.

[Andara Bledin]

Actually, aggressive dogs break and run for a variety of reasons, including believing that their target to "submitted" by backing down. As for the eye contact, it's actually ok to look at a dog, even at it's face, as long as you aren't actually facing the dog. Turning sideways is a good way to do this. Turning sideways also is seen as being unready to engage and is also a passive action that will help avoid attack.

Anyway, we can make all the assumptions we want on what went through the cops head in the moments leading up to the shooting, but that's all they are: assumptions. Most of them colored by the poster's own personal bias.

Should he have handled the situation differently? Most likely.

Could he have done so? We have no way of knowing. Anyone who says otherwise who doesn't also know the cop in question is deluding themselves.

[Tanasi]

So, in your scenario you had a known vicious dog that was off leash with no owner around. You made a mistake in your behaviour ( You do not stare down a dog, that's a challenge to them ) with your first encounter with it and lucked out because it submitted to you instead of challenging. Then the second time around you killed it mid attack.

In the op scenario, it was just a big, insecure dog getting excited because his owner was being accosted. At that point, several options were open to deal with the dog. Instead, the cop inadvertently provoked the animal and then shot it for the response he himself provoked.

I find the fact you would do likewise in the same scenario as the op to be somewhat disappointing. But likewise the cop may have had a similar past bias when he took that course of action.

What I'm saying is in both instances I did what I thought was correct. I gave ground to the dog mostly because I didn't want to fight it and if it ran away that was OK to. I think if it had continued it's attack the other dog would have come over the fence.
The second time, a vicious dog on the loose again, the owner doesn't care and now it's threatening a woman with a smallish dog and two small children. Could I have run it off??? Maybe. Did it attack me??? Nope, it wasn't hemmed in inway at that time. I didn't give ground but it also didn't break and run. There was a problem with a vicious dog to be solved and I solved it. My first shot took it down and the second put it into the next world. If it had been my dog I would have done the same and I have. I don't turn my critters loose on my fellow man to prey upon, I believe in being responsible. If a cop shoots one of my critters for being aggressive then I'll most likely take their word for it. Now matter how well trained some critters just snap and attack without warning.
In the OP the dog's owner was the one at fault. He was being a jerk and a irresponsible dog owner by not securing it in the car and making sure someone else had a handle on it. A dog that big is capable of killing, I don't blame the LEOs for being scared, heck all I did was watch the video and I was somewhat anxious for the LEOs. Personally I would have shot sooner. I know a tazer will take down a dog like it will a human but what's the dog's recovery time??? From folks that I know that been tazerer they say they feel like they just ran a marathon and aren't up to fighting. Dog who knows??? I don't think handcuffs will work too well, maybe zip-ties if they happen to be real handy. Most LEOs don't have BAT belts that have Bat-muzzles on them. So once the dog recovers you still have a whizzed off dog on your hands.
GK you're more than welcome to judge anyone you want and handle your dog tussles anyway you think is best, please extend the same to others.

[hinakiba777]

The thing that bugs me about the video is, while shooting the dog four times was overkill, the officer should have shot the poor thing again. Now the video cuts off, so maybe this happened. Or maybe there is another video that goes longer. But the sight of that poor creature flopping around on the road after being shot is just gut-wrenching. I would really like to know if they gave him a mercy shot after that, or just let him slowly die?

I didn't read all the replies but I agree with most of the ones I read: Guy is an idiot, dog should have been secured before, police may have overreacted to the dog snapping, but it was understandable. It's sad to hear that people with similar names are getting death threats. That's just messed up

[Hyena Dandy]

I think it's also sad to hear that the right person is getting death threats...

[hinakiba777]

I think it's also sad to hear that the right person is getting death threats...

Agreed! Death threats in general are horrible.

[Gravekeeper]

I would really like to know if they gave him a mercy shot after that, or just let him slowly die?

The dog was left to flail around and bleed to death on the street in front of a crowd of horrified and crying onlookers. Which I'm sure is a big component of the mob outrage surrounding the incident.

[Tanasi]

Personally I think he should have given the coup de gras he should have know he was in a no win situtation at that point. Don't know why he didn't maybe his department policy is not to do so.
Unfortunately I've had to do this on several occasions. The most memorable was a little red fox was run over by a car and it was all broken down and was just whining in pain. A lady had stopped thinking it was a small dog and it had bit her. I told her to get back in her car and I took a .22 rifle I had in the truck and finished it off. Told the lady to wait with it until animal control got there and tell them it had bit her because she might need to get a rabies shot.
I was a real pretty fox, just like one out of the picture books.

[Gravekeeper]

Personally I think he should have given the coup de gras he should have know he was in a no win situtation at that point. Don't know why he didn't maybe his department policy is not to do so.

I kind of have to agree. It was a no win scenario at that point and letting the dog suffer is what really pissed people off here. Yes, they'd be pissed at a final shot too. But probably less angry than watching the poor thing slowly die in the street for however long. Instead the officer stood back with his gun still drawn and watched it I guess for any more sudden moves. But in effect to the onlookers he watched it die.