Send in the SWAT team ... for a fawn

[draco664]

I DO know why they did it ( making sure none of the staff attacked them from behind, I juts think it was unnecessary to corral all the staff at the shelter

I would suggest that if that those officers believe that number of armed officers are required for a single deer and feel the need to violate people's rights just because they're scared of being attacked, then perhaps that job is not for them.

[Racket_Man]

Gov Walker is "taking notice" of this little incident.

He has asked his dept heads to come up with "ideas" for future use in situations of this nature.

[Panacea]

Sounds almost too ridiculous to be true, but I can't find any conflicting stories. For instance, every single website that has this story has the exact same quote in it, "armed to the teeth". What the hell does this mean? Did they come in with rifles that had grenade launcher attachments, grenades, flashbangs, etc? That'd be armed to the teeth as far as I'm concerned. All I've heard so far is that they tranquilized the deer (Which if that's all they are taking about, it's being seriously overblown).

SWAT teams do indeed carry grenade launchers: to fire tear gas and smoke canisters into houses in hostage situations. They also use flashbangs.

Well, they could have just dragged the deer out, but I think that'd be more traumatic seeing a limp deer being just dragged on the ground than just carrying it out in a bag that no one could see it in.

I don't actually understand why it was necessary to kill it. Seems like a waste of time and doesn't make the world a better place by any means.

It is inhumane to put a live animal in a body bag. You can't breathe in one of those things. Makes me wonder if they didn't OD the fawn and kill it, and spun a different tale later when they realized how much flak they were getting over this.

Deer are a reservoir for diseases than can be transmitted to humans, so humans are not typically allowed to possess them (varies by state), and they're not supposed to be in regular animal shelters (varies by state). If that's the law in Wisconsin, so be it, but how the animal was removed could have and should have been handled much, much better.

Having been part of a group that was actually subjected to a federal raiding party,

Wow! Can haz details?

Gov Walker is "taking notice" of this little incident.

He has asked his dept heads to come up with "ideas" for future use in situations of this nature.

Here's an idea for him: DON'T BE A DICK!

It's a rather simple philosophy of life.

[Andara Bledin]

Wow! Can haz details?

It's... not as exciting as it might sound. A customer was caught lying to the military about where his parts came from and tried to throw our company under the bus. So they came in with a warrant, kept everybody in a huddle in the warehouse (except for me; yay for being receptionist) and went through the place picking up computer data and paperwork as they went. We're not idiots, so our place was cleared by the end of the month, and about three years later, they sent our paperwork back. Well, most of it: they managed to lose several boxes while they sat on everything for no good reason. >_>

[s_stabeler]

It occurs to me that there's a simple idea for situations like this: take the wild animal to a dedicated wild animal shelter rather than killing it. problem solved, no need for SWAT teams. ( For that matter, in this case, the deer was already scheduled to be transferred to an out-of-state wild animal shelter, so a simpler solution would have been to ignore the fawn, then mandate the shelter screens everyone for the diseases that deer can carry. That way the safety aspect is satisfied w/o killing an innocent animal)

[draco664]

It occurs to me that there's a simple idea for situations like this: take the wild animal to a dedicated wild animal shelter rather than killing it.

From what I can tell, it's procedure to kill a wild animal taken into such a shelter - to prevent the spread of disease. That's why this *no-kill* shelter took the fawn in, in defiance of the law. So it would not be killed.

[s_stabeler]

... that's stupid as well- what about caring for the animal until it can be released back into the wild? (which is what wildlife shelters do in every other country in the world)

[Panacea]

State laws on this vary. Apparently, Wisconsin does not allow this.

[Aethian]

All the states surrounding them do and a couple people over here in the mitten are miffed at them.

[Panacea]

I didn't say it was right . . . just the law.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Well, most of it: they managed to lose several boxes while they sat on everything for no good reason. >_>

That sounds similar to the story of Steve Jackson Games and their battle with the Government over the first attempt at releasing a Cyberpunk Campaign book for the GURPS system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_J...Secret_Service

And...

http://www.sjgames.com/SS/

It took years for them to get back the data that was confiscated by them in the raid even though it should have blindingly obvious that this book which described computer intrusion as a process where someone plugs their brain directly into the computer network.

[Fire_on_High]

... that's stupid as well- what about caring for the animal until it can be released back into the wild? (which is what wildlife shelters do in every other country in the world)

Another site I read had more info. Turns out the fawn was from an area known to have Chronic Wasting Disease, and would have been taken to an area that didn't.

I can see the unfortunate need to put the deer down, with this in mind, because there's no treatment for CWD and no way to tell an infected animal in the early stages from a clean one other than by autopsy. Chronic Wasting Disease is the deer version of Mad Cow Disease, btw.

This was the most cocked up way of going about it possible, tho.

[Andara Bledin]

It seems to me that if the deer was being taken by a group that specialized in deer and was aware of its origins that it would stand to reason that they would be aware of the risks and have the facilities and knowledge to ensure that it was healthy and safe before introducing it into the wider population.

[BlaqueKatt]

You can prove the presence of the deer even if the deer had already been sent to the Illinois shelter.

One it is illegal to house a deer in wisconsin, unless you have a state issued permit. "But it's just a cute little baby" isn't a legal exemption.

Two We have a disease running rampant in our deer herds, that cannot be tested for unless the animal is deceased(it's a prion disease similar to mad cow). And they do appear healthy. So transferring a possibly sick deer to Illinois would expose MORE animals(illinois cervid populations are currently not affected by the disease). CWD was suspected to have been introduced to Wisconsin by bringing in diseased, healthy looking elk.


the deer was taken ILLEGALLY from the wild by a tourist, that "thought" it had been abandoned(fawns are regularly left alone in hiding by their mothers). The DNR is now receiving death threats. And did request voluntary compliance from the shelter, which was refused.

Last week our warden staff had the difficult and emotional job of removing a fawn that was illegally taken out of the wild and into captivity. None of our staff take joy in these situations. The department does the best it can to educate the public about keeping wild animals in the wild. In the end, we are charged by the citizens of Wisconsin to carry out state laws mandated by the legislature. It is a responsibility we take very seriously. We don’t have the ability to pick and choose which laws to enforce. Wardens did request voluntary compliance from the facility. When that didn't happen, our staff took precautions to keep everyone safe as they executed the required search warrant. We are always very empathetic to those involved in these situations and understand how difficult they are to all who are involved.

It seems to me that if the deer was being taken by a group that specialized in deer and was aware of its origins that it would stand to reason that they would be aware of the risks and have the facilities and knowledge to ensure that it was healthy and safe before introducing it into the wider population.

the prion is shed in fecal matter during early infection, and binds to soil minerals where it can remain dormant yet still infective for decades. the only test, is to examine slices of brain tissue, specificaly The parasympathetic vagal nucleus in the dorsal portion of the medulla oblongata at the obex is the most important site to examine for diagnosis of CWD because of its early involvement following infection. There is no "Test" to ensure the health of the living animal, unless you can figure out how to slice out a portion of medulla oblongata and brain stem of a still living creature.

info on CWD here

In short: the shelter broke the law, knew they broke the law, was given an opportunity to do the right thing, chose not to, and now screams foul. Was it heavy-handed, I don't know as has been pointed out, we are only getting one side, the side that broke the law, and may or may not be attempting to use emotional manipulation to garner public sympathy for KNOWINGLY, BREAKING THE LAW.

As for carrying the sedated deer in a body bag, have you ever seen the damage a deer can do? they are wild animals, not bambi, they will kick, and their hooves are sharp enough to severely lacerate a person.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

But, but, but law doesn't apply if something is cute or reported in a one sided fashion.

That said, 9 people is fucking overkill. It wasn't a meth lab. Unless Schultz had already threatened them with violence, in which case it should have been police arresting the owners at the same time.