Premarital sex: bad or good? Or neither?

[HEMI6point1]

Probably should fix that reply. I'm guessing you mean you DO believe in premarital sex?

Thanks for pointing that out!

[Flyndaran]

I believe in premarital sex. It's like a car: you have to test drive it before you buy it. Well what if I meet this great woman, we get married and find out she's a total dud in bed?

You could say the same about any post-marital revelation. The ultimate point to this kind of thinking is to live as a married couple before marriage. This kind of makes marriage pointless: doesn't it?

[HEMI6point1]

Having sex before marriage does not make a marriage "pointless."

[katie kaboom]

The ultimate point to this kind of thinking is to live as a married couple before marriage. This kind of makes marriage pointless: doesn't it?

Not at all, no. My fiance and i have been living as a married couple for close to a year now....yet we just got engaged in August. And our wedding isn't until June. The fact that we are already living life as a married couple in no way makes the marriage pointless. We are 100% sure we want to spend the rest of our lives together. If the love and commitment is there anyway, marriage is anything but pointless. Marriage is pledging your love and your life to that one special person you want to share it with.

[DrT]

Not at all, no. My fiance and i have been living as a married couple for close to a year now....yet we just got engaged in August. And our wedding isn't until June. The fact that we are already living life as a married couple in no way makes the marriage pointless. We are 100% sure we want to spend the rest of our lives together. If the love and commitment is there anyway, marriage is anything but pointless. Marriage is pledging your love and your life to that one special person you want to share it with.

AND getting tax benefits.

[Norton]

My husband and I got married recently after living together for over a year. No, our marriage is not pointless, and neither was our time spent living together unmarried.

I can only imagine how much more stressful things would be at this point if we hadn't lived together first. We both have our faults that weren't apparent to eachother before living together. People in general tend to be better behaved around people not cohabitating with them, and we were no different. In the year we spent living together, we learned eachothers habits (good and bad), we had some fights and learned how work things out and how to avoid future fights, and we've found a temporary home that we've changed to suit our comfort levels.

If we had to do all this only after committing to love eachother for the rest of our lives, I think the stress would have caused some serious doubts for the both of us. As it is, we know eachother better than we ever could have if we hadn't lived together, and that only strengthened our desire to commit to eachother. Actually getting married was the easiest part of our whole relationship because we were both confident in the decision, and there were no suprises after all was said and done. We just went back to living our lives as we were, except now we have the legal rights of a family.

AND getting tax benefits.

We were going to wait until next year when we could afford a "party wedding" to get married, but we went ahead and officially got married by a judge so we can take advantage of the tax break for 2009. That, and because now I can use my husband's health insurance.

[DrT]

We were going to wait until next year when we could afford a "party wedding" to get married, but we went ahead and officially got married by a judge so we can take advantage of the tax break for 2009. That, and because now I can use my husband's health insurance.

The wife and I never had a 'party wedding', because we were too far from freinds/family to really make it worth it.
But we did the official stuff early on (damn, already 6 yrs ago ?) because paperwork wise it was simply easier. From adopting her children, to my green card, to french nationality for all of them, etc... simply easier

And one day we'll have enough dough to throw the party. T'will be a renewal of vows or something, but the point is to have a party anyway.

[katie kaboom]

AND getting tax benefits.

Tee hee...yeah that too.

[Flyndaran]

I think everyone misunderstood what I meant. When I wrot, "...making marriage pointless." I mean the ceremony pointless. If two people live in every way as married couples are expected to, then the actual ceremony is just a very loud expensive way of declaring to the world, "We will keep doing what we've been doing."
THAT seems pointless to me.

No ceremony could possibly make my life mate and I any more of a permanently "married" than we already are.
For those pro-marriage for themselves at least, then there should be a difference between pre and post vows. If not, then what really is the point?

Is it due to the human urge to make up any excuse to have a party? Is it the normal ego driven need to declare strong feelings to a large gathering?

I vaguely get the concept of modern marriage for those individuals that don't feel right doing something before the vows. But I can't even begin to understand those already living as if married finding actual legal celebratory ceremonies anything other that huge wastes of money, time, and aggravation.
Other than clutural indoctrination, and that seems mildly insulting, even when true in so many other ways for most of us.

[katie kaboom]

Is it due to the human urge to make up any excuse to have a party? Is it the normal ego driven need to declare strong feelings to a large gathering?
But I can't even begin to understand those already living as if married finding actual legal celebratory ceremonies anything other that huge wastes of money, time, and aggravation.

It's due to people wanting to celebrate the happiest day of their life. Sure, my fiance and i could just go to the court house, get married, and call it a day but then we don't get to celebrate with our family and friends an event that is life changing for both of us. A wedding is more than just a party....it's a celebration of a love that is strong enough and committed enough to carry us through the rest of our lives together. And naturally we want to share that with our friends and family. We want them to see the love and devotion we have for each other. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

To each his own, but i'm thinking the majority of people who get married do not consider their wedding day to be a waste of time and money. That's quite a cynical view to hold about such a widespread practice.

[Boozy]

Is it due to the human urge to make up any excuse to have a party? Is it the normal ego driven need to declare strong feelings to a large gathering?
...But I can't even begin to understand those already living as if married finding actual legal celebratory ceremonies anything other that huge wastes of money, time, and aggravation.

My husband and I lived as a "married" couple for two years before getting married.

We had a legal wedding ceremony because

a) It was the most expedited and easiest way of getting all of the full tax and legal benefits of living as a family. There are others ways of doing that here in Canada, but it would have required legal and accountant fees that far surpassed the cost of the $50 marriage certificate

and

b) We wanted to have a really big party.

[Slytovhand]

Back to the topic at hand, many a good marriage lasts where the couple haven't had pre-marital sex, but in those, there is usually a culture-base of acceptance.

After all, in India and many other countries that have arranged marriages, the marriages tend to last, and the couples haven't had sex... with anyone.

It's also the basis for Xtian weddings (in theory), and Muslim. (I don't know about Judaic, but I'd presume the same, as it is a patriarchal thing...)

[Flyndaran]

It's due to people wanting to celebrate the happiest day of their life. .

But why is some ceremony filled day the happiest day of anyone's lives? If I married my life mate of over 10 years, not a gosh darn thing would have changed... other than a whole lot of money wasted on an expensive wedding party rather than an efficient party.

Sure, my fiance and i could just go to the court house, get married, and call it a day but then we don't get to celebrate with our family and friends an event that is life changing for both of us. .

If you've lived together and consumated the relathionship, then how on earth will a ceremony make any difference, let alone life changing?

A wedding is more than just a party....it's a celebration of a love that is strong enough and committed enough to carry us through the rest of our lives together. And naturally we want to share that with our friends and family. We want them to see the love and devotion we have for each other. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. .

With so many hasty marriages and divorces over nonsense, I don't see how a marriage ceremony says anything other than a party for party's sake along with social conformity.
I don't have anything against people choosing to have any kind of ceremony they want. I just don't understand it when it doesn't seem to convey any benefits other than legal.

To each his own, but i'm thinking the majority of people who get married do not consider their wedding day to be a waste of time and money. That's quite a cynical view to hold about such a widespread practice.

Majority rule doesn't apply to facts. I don't see marriage as anything other than an unconstitutionally state monitored antiquated ceremony with many features that have meanings that are ignored but kept for tradition's sake.
I love my life mate Tonya at least as much as any married man love his wife. No one or thing could possibly change that. I don't give a rat's butt whether others know how committed we are to eachother.
The only way to really prove love is with time. Everything else is just guessing.

[katie kaboom]

Alright, i'm throwing in the towel. Clearly you have a chip on your shoulder regarding the whole concept of weddings. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Flyndaran]

Assuming that the last post was directed at me... I wish everyone would stop misinterpreting me.
I don't have a problem with marriage anymore than I have a problem with any other ceremony.
I just don't understand secular humanist types finding marriage ceremonies so important.
Taking out the no X before marriage, and taking out the promise before your deity, then I simply don't see anything else but banal legalities.

Enjoy what you enjoy. I just don't get it.
I have no animosity towards even the most unusual ceremonies or those that seem so vested in performing in them.

I... just... don't... get... it.
I'm sorry that so many seemed to take offense by misinterpreting my intentions.